So I guess they should let blue server /movelog over

[ForeverLost]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, there was a big part of the community that was bent on hurf durfing people off the server. Was it a good idea to implement a ruleset that played right into their hands? I dont think so. Its easy to lay the blame on the griefers but the problems that would arise from the ruleset was pointed early in the box's life. They chose to have the server ruleset set in stone so the end result was a combination of excessive griefing and dev decisions.

I think the rampant complaining by the players hurt the population more than the ruleset ever could have. I leveled to 50 without xp increase and very, very slight xp loss without issue, back when people still played.

But people complained about the xp loss (which really was not an issue, it didn't affect me at all), xp rate, no item loot, no teams, other players and everything else. When sirken said that we act as though we're entitled to things, he was telling the truth. People complained so hard that they got an xp increase, and now people are still complaining. No one could just play the game, they wanted to play a game that they themselves designed. We had a perfectly good server, and I really enjoyed myself, even with people griefing. But something was an issue for most everyone, and that's what brought the population down.

[Tradesonred]

If the xp loss wasnt an issue, how is it possible to grief people off the server with it?

There is cognitive dissonance in what you are saying

[Nirgon]

As Sirked pointed out, half the server was banned for MQ or boxing.

I gotta say I shoulda realized or expected that given my semi-short stint on VZTZ 2.0

Lot of fun there being one of maybe 2 people not using that :P

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by ForeverLost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thank you for being constructive. Most people didn't seem to realize that my post in the blue forums was more tongue-in-cheek than it was serious, seeing as it's not going to happen ever.

I guess the low population really is a turn-off for me. The red community did cause the low population, the server's mechanics are surely playable. I saw that blue players really would play here if allowed their blue characters, and I saw some hope. Really I had no idea that the average red player would be so against the idea; I figured they would be elated to receive a population increase. Since the population will forever be this low, I have to say that I am leaving for blue (level 15 so far, doing well I guess!) for good. It was a lot of fun playing with you all during the IF days, suppose that was EQ PvP's final hurrah.

Since PvP has long been dead on this server the only ones remaining are people interested in PvE. There is no way a small community would welcome people coming over with an advantage to bully them around. There would be no reason to even play on Red until you were maxed out on Blue if transfers were available. Every person who plays on Red currently would be very bitter and annoyed that others were given an easier road to what they have worked for themselves.

If transfers were available I don't believe the server would get quality full time players. It would most likely be alts out gearing everyone on Red coming over from time to time griefing people when they are bored on Blue. If you want to play on Red you have to show some loyalty and commitment to the server. People didn't play on this server for a year to build a playground for someone from Blue to come on and blast a couple people then log off.

[ForeverLost]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If the xp loss wasnt an issue, how is it possible to grief people off the server with it?

There is cognitive dissonance in what you are saying

I really don't think anyone has been griefed off of the server by the exp loss. When I think about my time on Red99, I was griefed more by people killing me at the docks after taking the boat than I was by exp loss. Waiting 30 minutes for the boat (again) is a much bigger deal than losing 1% exp, and now with an exp increase it's even less of a big deal.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by ForeverLost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I really don't think anyone has been griefed off of the server by the exp loss.

I'd go through the SS's but people were definitely griefed off by coin only and definitely xp.

[ForeverLost]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As Sirked pointed out, half the server was banned for MQ or boxing.

I gotta say I shoulda realized or expected that given my semi-short stint on VZTZ 2.0

Lot of fun there being one of maybe 2 people not using that :P

Yes, those players really hurt themselves, and the server, with their cheating.

Originally Posted by HippoNipple [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Since PvP has long been dead on this server the only ones remaining are people interested in PvE. There is no way a small community would welcome people coming over with an advantage to bully them around. There would be no reason to even play on Red until you were maxed out on Blue if transfers were available. Every person who plays on Red currently would be very bitter and annoyed that others were given an easier road to what they have worked for themselves.

If transfers were available I don't believe the server would get quality full time players. It would most likely be alts out gearing everyone on Red coming over from time to time griefing people when they are bored on Blue. If you want to play on Red you have to show some loyalty and commitment to the server. People didn't play on this server for a year to build a playground for someone from Blue to come on and blast a couple people then log off.

Seems like shooting oneself in the foot, but I can definitely understand how loyalty and commitment could be important to red players. I was upset on live when people would transfer to Stormhammer, then come back with uber gear that they didn't earn in a PvP environment.

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd go through the SS's but people were definitely griefed off by coin only and definitely xp.

They sound like bluebies to me, in all honesty. Anyone that couldn't handle 1% exp loss on death was probably playing the wrong game :P

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by HippoNipple [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Since PvP has long been dead on this server the only ones remaining are people interested in PvE. There is no way a small community would welcome people coming over with an advantage to bully them around. There would be no reason to even play on Red until you were maxed out on Blue if transfers were available. Every person who plays on Red currently would be very bitter and annoyed that others were given an easier road to what they have worked for themselves.

If transfers were available I don't believe the server would get quality full time players. It would most likely be alts out gearing everyone on Red coming over from time to time griefing people when they are bored on Blue. If you want to play on Red you have to show some loyalty and commitment to the server. People didn't play on this server for a year to build a playground for someone from Blue to come on and blast a couple people then log off.

I agree to most everything except that the only people left are the PVErs. It might be true, because people were griefed off, but a population surge would most likely bring back some griefers. So a real population increase is not really possible while the ruleset that made things the way they are is still intact. It could happen mind you, a chance roll of dice that most griefers dont care enough to come back, too occupied elsewhere, but i dont think its likely.

Rest of post is spot-on.

[ForeverLost]

Also, I really think many high-end blue players are fed up with their raid scene enough that would want to play their characters on red full-time, just so they could raid and experience the game without sitting on raid spawn locations for "FTE".

[mostbitter]

What will really happen is blue character who like playing on blue will stay on blue. Characters that tranfser to red will be blue characters owned by red characters. nihilum which is full of people who play on blue will have a thousand new accounts to choose from. They will have 250 members on their dkp site and red will suffer again because some dude wanted to push for transfers.

Also it makes me laugh how you guys can so easily blame the red servers problems on the community when the community has been pleading with the development team to push the server in a better direction and all we have gotten in return is fuck you quit asking its your own damn fault anyway.

I pleaded to scrap the exp penalty on pvp death idea on this board for months prior to and after the release of the red server. I stated exactly what the impact would be, less desire to pvp, and people getting griefed with it. Both happened and continue to happen.

When an exp bonus was implemented everyone was happy and asked for it to stay. Everyone was very thankful and agreed that was the pace it should have been set at from the beginning. We got half of it and now we get bitched at for not accepting that as being enough.

The blame at best lies with both parties. The players have gone for so long trying to communicate effectively that they have grown frustrated and the development team lives in outer space insecure as fuck from the lack of socialization.