Game Mechanics: Dual wield is not classic

[letsdance]

the OP is right. i was just reading that it was implemented differently here and wondered. i am 100 % sure because this was the (not too long) first time when i bothered about such mechanics and spend much time with them. it is also how it was intended (since this has been questioned in this thread).

i tried but could not find any data to back it up. though, of course, the data found on the net is flawed anyways because many "wrong facts" have been known have been known back then (like jig of vigor boosting mana regen *lol*). for example i have found a few sites that claimed, dual wield was always only triggered when you swinged with your main hand (which is wrong of course because it was only until lvl 30).

all these posts that people quote here to prove differently do not talk about any levels and are from far later times in EQ when anyone got to lvl 30 alot faster and below lvl 30 wouldn't really bother. i assume (like all info that i found) that those people are all above lvl 30 and therefore it works differently.

[Uaellaen]

Offhand would only swing with your main hand.

yes i agree

and offhand delay was meaningless ...

[Haynar]

I remember something too about offhand delay. I do not know exactly how it worked though.

Someone find something to back it up. I would be more than happy to see about adding this to our list, to possibly implement the mechanic. But I need something to back it up, and more details on how exactly it should work.

Haynar

[Jify]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I remember something too about offhand delay. I do not know exactly how it worked though.

Someone find something to back it up. I would be more than happy to see about adding this to our list, to possibly implement the mechanic. But I need something to back it up, and more details on how exactly it should work.

Haynar

Close, but not exact:
http://web.archive.org/web/200105300...&Class=Warrior


Q: Does a warrior get double attack with off hand when duel weilding?
A: Yes. But since you must first roll a successfual dual attack, and then roll a double attack, its frequency does not become apparent until higher levels.

ie: Your mainhand must swing before you get a chance of swinging your offhand.

[dojo420]

i don't read that quote as establishing a relation between main- and dual wield-attacks. to me it just means you can only get a double attack on your offhand if the dual wield check was successful (i.e. you swing your offhand).
it doesn't say anything about the (in-)dependence of main- & offhand.

i looked through alot of the patch history on allakhazam and couldn't find dual wield mentioned anywhere.

[Pyrocat]

Originally Posted by Jify [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Close, but not exact:
http://web.archive.org/web/200105300...&Class=Warrior


Q: Does a warrior get double attack with off hand when duel weilding?
A: Yes. But since you must first roll a successfual dual attack, and then roll a double attack, its frequency does not become apparent until higher levels.

ie: Your mainhand must swing before you get a chance of swinging your offhand.

I don't think your IE follows. That statement in no way implies that a dual wield check happens based on the mainhand. He doesn't state what triggers rolling a successful dual attack.

[Akame]

Dojo's right, rolling a check for a successful double attack still can be independent of a primary attack. You'd need to find parses from 2000 or so that showed the system only rolled a dual wield check after the primary.

I.e. it could be this:
... main hand swing check
... main hand double attack check
... offhand dual wield check
... offhand double attack check

but, if timer is independent eventually you are going to get those offhand swings coming in before the main hand swings in the parse, which is why you really need an actual parse over a FAQ statement like the one above.

The real fun part then is reading parses for riposte's. It's easiest with a 1hs/1hb setup so you can see crushes vs slashes, but what if it looks like this

... main hand slash!
... main hand slash!
... offhand crush!
... main hand slash!
... offhand crush!

That looks like you've just done two rounds of attacks and missed the offhand double attack, then the main hand double attack, and offhand double attack. When in reality you actually just riposted in the middle of your attack round.

... main hand slash!
... main hand slash! (double attack)
... offhand crush! (dual wield)
... main hand slash! (riposte)
... offhand crush! (double attack offhand)

Timestamps are pretty much a must at that point. Sadly, it looks like the steel warrior forums have been wiped of anything past 2004 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I do believe that a primary weapon will ALWAYS swing first when you hit attack, however from then on I believe the primary and offhand timer's are independent and which one will swing first after the initial round will depend on the specific weapon's delay.

[Kraun]

DW requiring the mainhand to swing was always a myth and proven wrong. Put a non melee weapon mainhand and watch as your offhand will still swing. Another way i remember it being tested was wurmslayer mainhand fs dagger offhand and the offhand swinging twice for every mainhand swing.

Another common melee myth that has been around since classic is that 10 delay is the lowest a weapon can go and that haste would not bring it any lower.

Moss covered twig was a overpowered weapon because of the dmg bonus being applied more often.

[Kirdan]

Originally Posted by Kraun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DW requiring the mainhand to swing was always a myth and proven wrong. Put a non melee weapon mainhand and watch as your offhand will still swing. Another way i remember it being tested was wurmslayer mainhand fs dagger offhand and the offhand swinging twice for every mainhand swing.

This is how I remember it, but I didn't really start playing until Velious. The reason low delay weapons were best for mainhand was the more frequent application of the damage bonus, not for extra dual wield checks. The rule of thumb was lowest delay mainhand, best ratio offhand.

[Yoite]

Kraun has a good point. On live you could still duel wield attack even with a non weapon in main hand, just a a stein or more common, a bard's instrument.

Soo, hmmmmm.