Dru+Enc+? Trio

[falkun]

Web, you are wrong. In a DRU/ENC duo, both classes should be petting it up, and pre-snaring/tashing the pets so charm isn't as dangerous. They can then tear through dungeons with these pets.

I think mage is the best pairing with DRU/ENC. Summon some pet items, get your own pet out and DRU/ENC buffed and you are off to the races.

You could also do necro, but they have more overlap with lich/crack not stacking (IIRC), not being able to buff other pets as much (no summoned items), and their nukes aren't as strong as the mages and their DoTs won't get to duration with 3 pets beating on something.

Bard is just funky with DRU/ENC. His buff songs won't affect the pets, his mana song is crappy until L55, so he's basically a DoT class with minor mana regen (inferior to breeze/clarity). He might be a better puller, but both ENC and DRU have lull.

DRU/ENC work as a duo because of how little overlap exists between the classes. One has heals, snare, DoTs, SoW, ports, HP/STR/HP regen buffs while the other has CC, tash, haste, slow, mana regen. Their largest overlap is with charm, and we all know charm is OP if it sticks (which should be pretty easy with snare/tash).

[webrunner5]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Web, you are wrong. In a DRU/ENC duo, both classes should be petting it up, and pre-snaring/tashing the pets so charm isn't as dangerous. They can then tear through dungeons with these pets.

I think mage is the best pairing with DRU/ENC. Summon some pet items, get your own pet out and DRU/ENC buffed and you are off to the races.

You could also do necro, but they have more overlap with lich/crack not stacking (IIRC), not being able to buff other pets as much (no summoned items), and their nukes aren't as strong as the mages and their DoTs won't get to duration with 3 pets beating on something.

Bard is just funky with DRU/ENC. His buff songs won't affect the pets, his mana song is crappy until L55, so he's basically a DoT class with minor mana regen (inferior to breeze/clarity). He might be a better puller, but both ENC and DRU have lull.

DRU/ENC work as a duo because of how little overlap exists between the classes. One has heals, snare, DoTs, SoW, ports, HP/STR/HP regen buffs while the other has CC, tash, haste, slow, mana regen. Their largest overlap is with charm, and we all know charm is OP if it sticks (which should be pretty easy with snare/tash).

You bring up some very good points.

[Autotune]

psh, you guys are fools. Cleric buffs/heals and rezzes when you need are clutch and keep you overall efficient. Cleric stuns help keep the enchanter from dying.

Unless you just want that roll for your druid, then it seems like the druid is going to be running OOM a great deal.

There is a difference between power and efficiency. The main thing about forming a duo or trio is finding a balance with Power & Efficiency while also maintaining a good bit of utility.

Sadly, I don't see a mage even coming close to a cleric. Pretty fail to think a cleric is only about healing lol.

[falkun]

I hadn't weighed in on CLR/ENC/DRU, but strictly from a "maximum efficiency" viewpoint, a mage is going to increase killing power more than a Cleric. If you are getting into instances where a Cleric's increased healing power and stuns increase xp/hr more than a mage's pet, summoned items, Nukes, and DS, then you are exping in the wrong camp. We all know the tried and true monotonous grind leads to the best EXP in this game, but also the most mundane. If you would like to sacrifice xp/hr for harder camps, that is your prerogative and I certainly understand (running bard circles sure as hell got boring after I dinged 46), but its not the most efficient. You are also closer to a full group with CLR/ENC at all levels than MAG/ENC/DRU, but the M/E/D should function adequately, especially prior to the 40s and 50s.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I hadn't weighed in on CLR/ENC/DRU, but strictly from a "maximum efficiency" viewpoint, a mage is going to increase killing power more than a Cleric. If you are getting into instances where a Cleric's increased healing power and stuns increase xp/hr more than a mage's pet, summoned items, Nukes, and DS, then you are exping in the wrong camp. We all know the tried and true monotonous grind leads to the best EXP in this game, but also the most mundane. If you would like to sacrifice xp/hr for harder camps, that is your prerogative and I certainly understand (running bard circles sure as hell got boring after I dinged 46), but its not the most efficient. You are also closer to a full group with CLR/ENC at all levels than MAG/ENC/DRU, but the M/E/D should function adequately, especially prior to the 40s and 50s.

i'm telling you right now, that enchanter is going to die from a charmed pet, more than a few times.

Having a cleric on hand to rez people back and help keep people alive is going to be a great plus. Not to mention, in a good bit of leveling dungeons, the mobs are undead. There are more ways to be useful as a cleric than just, sit back and heal/buff.

Switching to have a cleric dps on undead while the druid mostly heals/buffs and the enchanter does his thing is key. I still don't see how a mage can fill out a trio spot for that duo like a cleric can.

I see more doors opening with a cleric than a mage.

[teekanc]

Shaman

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i'm telling you right now, that enchanter is going to die from a charmed pet, more than a few times.

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Strictly from a "maximum efficiency" viewpoint

...the enchanter will not "die...more than a few times." If the druid is on his game, he will root the NPC pets are killing and be able to root the ENC's now-uncharmed pet before it beats down the ENC. If you take my quotes to the real world, where mistakes happen, then you have to weigh the benefit of rezzes, stuns on broken charm, and increased healing power vs. increased DPS from mage pet/nukes/DS (which is still better than a cleric nuking undead) and letting the druid focus on healing and incident response. I will admit having 2 IVU and 2 invis is nice. But, you could also just have evac locked and loaded if you are worrying about dieing. Again, if you are playing in a manner that you "die...more than a few times", you are playing in the wrong manner and/or at the wrong camp for maximum EXP.

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Having a cleric on hand to rez people back and help keep people alive is going to be a great plus. Not to mention, in a good bit of leveling dungeons, the mobs are undead. There are more ways to be useful as a cleric than just, sit back and heal/buff.

Switching to have a cleric dps on undead while the druid mostly heals/buffs and the enchanter does his thing is key. I still don't see how a mage can fill out a trio spot for that duo like a cleric can.

I see more doors opening with a cleric than a mage.

The mage is going to improve pets more than the cleric will. The mage will have higher DPS against a broader range of targets than the cleric. I'm not saying don't take the cleric, just like a lot of people don't say "thou shalt not take rangers," but from a strictly "maximum efficiency" viewpoint, the mage is going to be worth his 33% penalty more than the cleric in the same way a rogue is often picked over a ranger.

[godbox]

i gotta agree with autotune maybe if pet taunt worked on p99 could u argue for mage being able to defend the ench from charm breaks but your gonna die everyone dies and a mage doesnt add anything, like autotune said, to save / recover from that all it does is increase killing speed. And probly only increase kill speed marginally since mage will need to med pretty frequently unless all there doing is attacking with pet.

the cler just butt surfs through the dungeon behind the ench / druid really probly being close to FM and just keep the chanter pets going maybe root/stuning but most importantly WHEN not if but when the chanter druid fuck up overpull or have bad res string the cler can get them up and grinding again in 5-10 mins not having to CR and eventually not losing any siginificant exp throughout the whole leveling experience is gonna > any increase kill speed the mage brings

dru ench and any caster (not sham) is good so at some point this is: what does the third person wanna play... cleric is to me the most boring class in game and all you have to look forward to seems to be looking like grape koolaid, waiting in line for ragefire and healing others through raid targets to get more badass gear for demselves. Or mage who gets sweet pets and nukes although pretty self centered class I would probly pick mage personnaly seems more fun.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by godbox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the cler just butt surfs through the dungeon behind the ench / druid really probly being close to FM and just keep the chanter pets going maybe root/stuning

And that FM butt surfing is wasted. And the DRU can already have root covered, so unless you are fighting a caster NPC (which goes back to my "your doing it wrong" point), the cleric brings rezzes, undead nukes, stun, root, and a 2nd IVU to the table. For that same party spot, the mage brings another pet, pet weapons/gear, and better all-around nukes.

On a non-warrior, the most efficient heal is HP regen. The most-efficient DPS is pet DPS. The most efficient pet-tanking method is to root-park the pull. The most efficient charming is pre-snaring, maloing (another point for the mage), and tashing. The most efficient CR recovery is to not get into the position where you need to CR in the first place.

[godbox]

the cleric/dru also adds the byog element to there group which will let them do something other than guk and sol /wrist

cler can bind and everyone else can stay bound where ever they want when there done druid can poof them away wherever.

Not arguing that mage isnt a good fit with the trio I just dont think about the game in terms of min maxing I look at how do I go fuck around in all the parts of EQ I missed out on or dungeons that people dont do often. For that experience ench/druid/cler is the 3 man for me. If I am playin on a tank and somone PMs me "hey wanna do some obscure dungeon we can pick you up, take you there, have all the skills needed to navigate a whole dungeon (not just sit at a camp area), and IF we do fuck up well we have cler the class that is near impossible to find ingame that isnt currently being PLd up to 55 for one of the big guilds.
rant over thats how I look at it