Game Mechanics: Summon interval (Howling Stones / all world)

[DoucLangur]

Thanks Droxx - although interestingly enough most of this refers to planes of power, which is the first expansion I remember to have shorter summon intervals [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] But that is also hinted at by some comments in the links you provided.

Either way - I'd say there's enough evidence in this thread to support the bug report, what the devs make of it is up to them. If the server is not meant to be true classic, but rather some kind of "balanced classic" - then so be it.

Slozem

[Motec]

Its funny how 'special' uthgaard is.

6sec is wrong. Its well known. But uth is such a twit who trolls bugs section all day now instead of doing something useful that its futile to argue.

I'll donate $100 to the server every month to see him banned from the forums and games. What a cock.

[Uthgaard]

6 seconds was proven correct by two developers and you have a third who said he won't change it even if it wasn't correct (which it is). In those 3 links, one makes no mention of the interval, and the other two are from 2005, and still wrong even from that time.

It's not hard, surprising, or even the first time that I've explained this, but there's no shortage of contradictory information out there. For every fact about everquest, there is a post with contradictory information about it somewhere. I can produce posts that claim gnomes can't be rogues, or that dark elves have sneak. Doesn't mean they're true. And for every fact someone gets wrong, there's at least one person butthurt enough to rage like a child over not getting the game made easier.

If it was wrong, you'd have proof. You don't. Get over it.

[Rais]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

6 seconds was proven correct by two developers and you have a third who said he won't change it even if it wasn't correct (which it is).

He said since mobs are perma rooted in Velious he wouldn't change it. That isn't the case. So if we do find "proof" we can try and get it changed back to "classic"

It's not hard, surprising, or even the first time that I've explained this, but there's no shortage of contradictory information out there. For every fact about everquest, there is a post with contradictory information about it somewhere.

I agree that there are contradictory information out there about eq. Yet you can find stuff that has been changed, and find little information about it before hand. Such as this. There is a post from 2007 talking about mobs now summoning at 6 seconds, I've only found one post that says this so far. Everything else has been around 12 seconds to summon from Al'Kbar server to other guides up to 2005. So if all the info you can find about mobs summoning after 2007ish are 6 second timers, and all the info you can find pre 2007 say 12 seconds. Deductive reasoning would point towards a a common theme of somewhere around an expansion around 2007ish time period mob summoning times were shorted due to mobs being perma rooted in those expansions.

Nilbog posted he found stuff at 6 seconds to summon was 1 post about

The warping and stuff is due, I believe, to problems with the new collision system. Had reports of boss mobs warping all over the place on corner tanks, and one of our elemental guilds apparently had a bit of fun with the avatar of mist (warp/summon every 6 seconds!), so hopefully the new code will smooth things out.

And the other was this.

Most mobs these days summon every 6 seconds, thats just enough time to run for a couple secs turn slightly and cast lifetap then get sumoned and run and turn and lifetap and get summoned and run and turn and lifetap and get summoned....and so on and so forth.

Pre 2007 : 2005 on Al'Kabor server so in essence 2002. The earliest time I can find anything about summoning mobs.

http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.asp...=562582&Page=2

The other half of this is that summon has a 12 second refresh timer associated with it. So, lets say you have a summoning mob that is now below 97% and you as the puller or split tank need to get it into a corner or whatever. Make sure you have a solid lock on the mobs agro (because as stated, mobs summon whoever is tops on its hatelist) and begin backing away until the mob summons you. From the time you arrive in the mob's lap and for 12 seconds after that, the mob will now chase you. So take off for wherever you need the mob to be.

2002
http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.html?id=7401

I believe mobs here summon every 12 seconds... it's a very tough zone and if you want to get past the entrance you should have two well rounded groups

2003
http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums//...hp?t-3745.html
Fighting Arch Lich

Rampage acts like a proc, so there's less healing needed for MT and RT. It takes like 12 seconds to recycle summon*, he'll get in 3-4 rounds as tank backs off if that if AL misses and doesnt stun the MT.

"Aggro kitting" AL with a SK was the reason why they nerfed distance aggro (ask any SK about that and they'll tell you how their pure aggro spells are @#%$ up) and reduced the summoning cycle on him in the first place.
"Kitting" him is not more effective than actually tanking him, as you can't predict the dps output.

2004
http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewt...hp?f=39&t=2567

There seems to be - I think it is about 12 seconds. There is also a max distance, beyond which a mob won't summon you, but may still have aggro and chase you.

less then 12 seconds im sure of it, and im not sure there is a max range =)

Most PoP mobs begin summoning at 98 pct health. While 12 sec or so is the standard for summons "recast" - I could swear some can do it faster.

2004
http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.html?id=15994

immediately adjacent to zlandicar's lair there are two spawns right next to each other, both mobs that spawn there tend to be hoarders. occasionally one will be "a chetari packrat" or the whelp kidnapper. i have seen the hoarders levels as high up as 62. the necromancer hoarders do not summon. the warrior ones do summon. however, they only summon every 12 seconds so its very possible to kite them anyways.

2006
http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...t=14324&page=4

And summoning mobs don't summon if you run fast enough to get out of their summoning range.
And most mobs summon every 12 seconds but there are exceptions naturally.
And if mob goes back over about 97 percent it won't summon untill its under about 97 percent or so again.

I found more proof that it was 12 seconds, than 6 seconds. Researching this stuff is a pain in the ass and takes too damn long to find. I don't fault any devs for finding a few things and saying that's how it was. I'm willing to keep finding information, but the evidence so far out weighs any reasoning for it to stay at 6 seconds as compared to 12 seconds my research has shown.

I'm over the Uth's rage posts in bugs sections. If you don't like the guy, don't read his posts. He is 100% correct that we need proof to change things. You can't simply say " I remember such and such" or " This was how it was" and that's it. It sets a bad precedent towards people submitting bugs without proof, and even Devs changing things in game * Even though there has been a few things, but has been slowly fixed *,

[nilbog]

Here's some infos.

http://www.ttlg.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=5043

The funny thing about Hate is that it just reuses old mob graphics. That's not a diseased rat, boys and girls, that's an UBER diseased rat. Think that ghoul is a wimp? Heh. And that ain't no ordinary mummy...

As you may have noticed from my last post, I've started to have fun with my log file. Now I shall have more fun. Fear the wrath of Aledar.

And now, fear the wrath of mobs that were kinda irked that they were hit with a ball of massive icy death.

[Thu Nov 09 22:46:25 2000] a scorn banshee says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Thu Nov 09 23:23:36 2000] an ashenbone drake says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Thu Nov 09 23:44:48 2000] an ire ghast says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 00:00:27 2000] Cleric of Innoruuk says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 00:07:01 2000] Cleric of Innoruuk says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 00:20:27 2000] an abhorrent says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 00:34:04 2000] an ire ghast says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 00:39:11 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 00:44:26 2000] a loathling lich says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 01:13:29 2000] a loathling lich says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 01:13:51 2000] a loathling lich says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 01:21:04 2000] an ire ghast says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:11:05 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:43 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:54 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:28 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:39 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:50 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:44:38 2000] a revultant rat says 'You will not evade me Aledar'

Ah, notice that forsaken revenant that summoned me a lot? That was unpleasant. He suddenly decided that he didn't like me. Really didn't like me. So he kept hitting me. The two clerics in my group were chain casting heals, and my HP still never went above 40%, and was under 20% most of the time. I had, with buffs at the time, about 1400 HP. This thing did 4543 damage to me in a minute from melee alone - it also hit me with about six spells, one of which I resisted. Now, you'd figure, since I only cast one Ice Comet (hits for 1110, but only hit for 56 due to a major resist), with the knowledge that a 100 heal is the same taunt as a 100 hp nuke (even moreso, as Wizard spells are inherently less of a taunt), that the mob would turn away and start beating on the clerics, as they've healed me for a couple thousand HP each. Or maybe one of the 20 tanks bashing it. But no. He was really upset. Just plain miserable. I mean, something must have really made him unhappy. Maybe his internet connection was out, or someone tracked mud through the ornate gothic structures in Hate. I dunno. Use this as an example of what plane mobs are like. Throw in the fact that they have about 15k HP each and are rather magic resistant. Then consider the fact that people consider Hate to be the easiest of the three planes by far. Oh, keep in mind that I had just about every chat filter option (outside of ooc and shout) off, as when you have 20 tanks hitting one mob and 10 casters nuking, you get some serious lag from the major spam. The "injured by falling" part is when the thing cast an AE Gravity Flux. Having 40 people flung chaotically into the air can cause a major system slowdown, even on my machine.

[Fri Nov 10 02:34:43 2000] a forsaken revenant was hit by non-melee for 56 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:43 2000] a forsaken revenant's skin is rent by massive shards of deadly ice.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:43 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:43 2000] You have been summoned!
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:43 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 103 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:43 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 103 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:45 2000] Shalyrra tells the group, 'Now casting REMEDY on Nenelar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:45 2000] Shalyrra begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:47 2000] Murlyn is no longer berserk.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:48 2000] Nenelar's wounds fade away.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:49 2000] Nenelar begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:50 2000] Dini's spell fizzles!
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:51 2000] Shalyrra tells the group, 'Now casting REMEDY on Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:52 2000] Shalyrra begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:52 2000] Dini begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:53 2000] Missie begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:53 2000] a forsaken revenant's skin ignites and chars.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:54 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:54 2000] You have been summoned!
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:54 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 66 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:54 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 134 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:55 2000] Your wounds fade.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:55 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 71 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:55 2000] Your wounds fade.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:55 2000] Daylife says, 'can i get clarity pls'
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:56 2000] Onei was injured by falling.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:56 2000] Lyshatin was injured by falling.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:56 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 61 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:56 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:56 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Airal'
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:58 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 97 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:58 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 134 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:34:59 2000] Nenelar begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:00 2000] Hydial beams a smile at a forsaken revenant.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:00 2000] Hydial says, 'Ahhh, I feel much better now...'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:02 2000] Hygiliak shouts, 'I can see my house from here!'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:02 2000] Dini begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:02 2000] Shalyrra tells the group, 'Now casting REMEDY on Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:02 2000] Shalyrra begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:03 2000] You are stunned!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:04 2000] You are unstunned.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:04 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:04 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:05 2000] Your wounds fade.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:05 2000] Your wounds fade.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:06 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:06 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:09 2000] You resist the Sanity Warp spell!!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:10 2000] Shalyrra tells the group, 'Now casting REMEDY on Missie'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:11 2000] Dini begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:11 2000] Shalyrra begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:13 2000] Missie's wounds fade away.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:14 2000] Missie's wounds fade away.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:15 2000] You are stunned!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:16 2000] You are unstunned.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:18 2000] Prowlerr shouts, 'Target Locked: | an ire ghast | Assist me Now !!!'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:20 2000] Laylomo says out of character, 'MT female Rev'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:20 2000] Dini begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:20 2000] You tell your party, 'shoo!'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:23 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 66 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:23 2000] Your wounds fade.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:24 2000] Shalyrra tells the group, 'Now casting REMEDY on Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:24 2000] Shalyrra begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:24 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:24 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 113 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:25 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:26 2000] Gretchin tells the group, 'have to use bathroom brb'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:26 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 129 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:27 2000] Your wounds fade.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:28 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:28 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 118 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:28 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:28 2000] You have been summoned!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:29 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 129 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:29 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 113 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:30 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:30 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 118 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:31 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:31 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:32 2000] Shalyrra tells the group, 'Now casting REMEDY on Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:32 2000] Shalyrra begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:33 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:33 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:34 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:34 2000] You are stunned!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:34 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:35 2000] Your wounds fade.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:35 2000] Dini begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:35 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:35 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:37 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 108 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:37 2000] You are unstunned.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:38 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 97 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:38 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:38 2000] Your wounds fade.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:38 2000] Nenelar tells the group, 'uh oh....it's gonna come true'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:39 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:39 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:39 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:39 2000] You have been summoned!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:40 2000] Shalyrra tells the group, 'OOM'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:40 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:40 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:42 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:42 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:43 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:43 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:44 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 51 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:44 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:45 2000] Missie begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:46 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 77 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:46 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:47 2000] Daylife says, 'can i get clarity pls'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:47 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 97 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:47 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:47 2000] Dini's spell fizzles!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:48 2000] Shalyrra tells the group, 'DINI .. heal him'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:48 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:48 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 139 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:50 2000] a forsaken revenant hits YOU for 56 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:50 2000] a forsaken revenant tries to hit YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:50 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:50 2000] You have been summoned!

[Rais]

Looks like 11-12 seconds in that log. Or am I reading wrong?heh

[Szeth]

That is indeed what it looks like in dat dere log

[Daldaen]

This would be a great fix. Due to the lack of a spell haste focus I can't get out of range of a rooted mob and gate before I get resummonded. Which is very lame as it's something I should be able to do.

[Uthgaard]

Now that's the kind of evidence that I'm talking about. Nice job Bisch.

[DoucLangur]

nilbogs post indeed supports the longer summon interval.

From what I was able to discern out of my own logs, the summon interval "discrepancy" that sometimes it's called as 10, 11 or 12 seconds can be explained by a combination of:
- timing of summon (I don't know EQEmu code, or EQlive, obviously - but I am pretty sure the availability of each mob's abilities is checked by a timer function that runs on intervals - so a 10 second refresh is actually the refresh plus a minor extra time until the timer function next checks that ability's availability - which can be anywhere between 0 and x seconds.)
- server/zone/client lag (may cause slight delays until the event gets logged on the client)
- rounding issues

A possible scenario is that client lag causes a delay in logging a 2nd summon, while on the 1st summon it was on-time - resulting in log entries with 12 seconds delay, while in another case (I found one in my logs) the timer function on the server was spot-on, and the client was reacting/logging fast, and the log entries are 10 seconds apart. That would indicate the actual summon interval was 10 seconds, while in almost all cases, the next summon was not processed until 1 second later.