Raid rules suggestion

[Finawin]

FFA is fucking terrible and just promoted dickery like we're seeing now.

Training, KSing, and being assholes is "classic" but it also got you banned on live too. If you've ever done it to another guild you got banned if caught. The main problem was GMs were scarce as fuck and so it rarely happened.

If you're of the mindset that a guild should be able to come up to your engaged mob and just DPS zerg it for the win, you're fucking terrible and should get the fuck out.

[bionicbadger]

The solution is that when a raid target is up, the zone gets flagged for PVP. Then whatever guilds are there can fight it out over who gets the raid mob.

[Finawin]

Also a terrible idea...

Deciding on who gets to do PVE by who can zerg PVP is fucking retarded.

[yaaaflow]

True story, I had the competition vs rotation discussion with Rallyd one time, and he was adamant that the competition system was analogous to communism (since only a few people were getting raid targets) while the rotation system would be more like capitalism (since they would be shared with everyone, yay!). And being a good, hardworking American who hates commies, he was obviously for the rotation system.



Yeah I know this has nothing to do with this thread.

[Grento]

Originally Posted by yaaaflow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

True story, I had the competition vs rotation discussion with Rallyd one time, and he was adamant that the competition system was analogous to communism (since only a few people were getting raid targets) while the rotation system would be more like capitalism (since they would be shared with everyone, yay!). And being a good, hardworking American who hates commies, he was obviously for the rotation system.



Yeah I know this has nothing to do with this thread.

I thought everyone sharing was communism and everyone for themselves based on who puts in the most time and work was capitalism.... [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by yaaaflow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

True story, I had the competition vs rotation discussion with Rallyd one time, and he was adamant that the competition system was analogous to communism (since only a few people were getting raid targets) while the rotation system would be more like capitalism (since they would be shared with everyone, yay!). And being a good, hardworking American who hates commies, he was obviously for the rotation system.



Yeah I know this has nothing to do with this thread.

LOL, that's all ass-backwards. I would say competition system is analogous to capitalism (wealth goes to a few, screw the rest), and rotation system is more like socialism (everyone gets their fair share!)

[Grento]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

LOL, that's all ass-backwards. I would say competition system is analogous to capitalism (wealth goes to a few, screw the rest), and rotation system is more like socialism (everyone gets their fair share!)

I think we may have just missed the joke behind it ;p

[guineapig]

Just a few words on this concept of "competition" that people keep mentioning.

True competition comes from some sort of an even playing field to begin with. And by this I'm not referring to both teams having the same skill level (no two teams are exactly the same, each has its strengths and weaknesses).

But in every other case I can possibly think of, competition requires somebody to compete against. How does a basketball team compete if the other team is not on the court?

So being able to be online at any hour of the day might show some crazy form of dedication on your part, it does not show much else.

True competition would be 2 groups of the same number of people, online at the same time when the raid target is up. "Ready, set, go."

Geting raid targets when the rest of the server population is at work or asleep is like playing tennis with nobody on the other side of the net.

(Sorry if this was slightly off topic but I've been meaning to bring it up for a while.)

[Grento]

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just a few words on this concept of "competition" that people keep mentioning.

True competition comes from some sort of an even playing field to begin with. And by this I'm not referring to both teams having the same skill level (no two teams are exactly the same, each has its strengths and weaknesses).

But in every other case I can possibly think of, competition requires somebody to compete against. How does a basketball team compete if the other team is not on the court?

So being able to be online at any hour of the day might show some crazy form of dedication on your part, it does not show much else.

True competition would be 2 groups of the same number of people, online at the same time when the raid target is up. "Ready, set, go."

Geting raid targets when the rest of the server population is at work or asleep is like playing tennis with nobody on the other side of the net.

(Sorry if this was slightly off topic but I've been meaning to bring it up for a while.)

Interesting take. I think it all depends on what the end objective is and what exactly you are competing for. If you are just competing over the same mob then I would agree with you. If you are competing in an arms race to get everyone in your guild fully geared so you can be the first to tackle the next raid zone opening up and get all those server firsts, that changes the scenario quite a bit.

This is the same great debate that has been going on since the beginning of MMO’s, power gamers vs casual gamers. Unfortunately there will never be a way to make everyone happy, everyone is going to have to learn to be a little bit unhappy.

"The definition of a true compromise is when both parties walk away feeling they just got screwed"

*EDIT*

Just to clarify, I don't advocate any sort of griefing or training on a non pvp server.

[Kraal]

This is why I'm such a proponent of my system, not everyone is going to be 100% happy all the time because someone is going to be dicked over since raid targets at the moment are scare.

By popping them all on certain days and certain times (you can even switch the days up) you're allowing for an economic principle called substitution, and even if one guilds feels that an Inny kill is inferior to say a Nagafen kill based on loot garnered they still had the opportunity to get at least one raid target.

We've talked about capitalism a lot in this thread and how "competition" drives it, yet you fail to understand all goods and services have substitutes, every action has opportunity cost and you're only seeing the tiny portion of capitalism that involves a victorious mentality.