Instances destroyed EQ

[mimixownzall]

Instances is just lazy developement.

Instead of creating multiple large static dungeons, they come out with 3 or 4 instances that take 10 mins to breeze through.

Then you get douchebag tanks or healers who go to the first boss... it doesn't drop what they want, so they disband leaving the group without key positions. They go requeue and join in less than 30 seconds while the DPS wait 20+ minutes to get another group.

It's fucking retarded.

Instances also killed world PvP, which is the funnest PvP.

I could live with instances if they would allow you to join existing ones kinda like EQ2 in the beginning (only played first few months of EQ2). If it would give me a list of instances occupied by opposing factions and let me join it, that would be bad ass. A TRUE PVP server.

[mokfarg]

Originally Posted by mimixownzall [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Instances is just lazy developement.

Instead of creating multiple large static dungeons, they come out with 3 or 4 instances that take 10 mins to breeze through.

Then you get douchebag tanks or healers who go to the first boss... it doesn't drop what they want, so they disband leaving the group without key positions. They go requeue and join in less than 30 seconds while the DPS wait 20+ minutes to get another group.

It's fucking retarded.

Instances also killed world PvP, which is the funnest PvP.

I could live with instances if they would allow you to join existing ones kinda like EQ2 in the beginning (only played first few months of EQ2). If it would give me a list of instances occupied by opposing factions and let me join it, that would be bad ass. A TRUE PVP server.

What you mentioned really has nothing to do with instances though. I played WoW when there was no expansions and I went from beginning to end, nothing but dungeons. This was before the dungeons finder tool. You had to walk to the instance and shout for a group.

The dungeon finder tool is what made the symptoms you described. Back in 2004, I ran dungeons and everyone stayed to the end mainly and everyone had a good time. Also at that time crowd control still existed.

[Vohl]

I think that the greatest failure of EQ was the inability to attract new players after awhile, due to outdated graphics and overly-complicated character advancement. While these were hardly an issue for any of us, prospective new players will judge a book by its cover. Once new player population cut down to a trickle, the server populations started to disperse, over time making pickup groups hard to find and reducing social interplay between players.

[Samoht]

you guys seem to ignore one major factor in the decision to use instancing: population

if a static zone is only capable of supporting 3 or 4 groups of casual EXPers, then what happens with the server population is at a point where 7 or 8 groups need to EXP there?

think velks from velious. it's the premier EXP zone for the expansion 55-60, and yet can only support 5 EXP groups max. what happens on p99 when everybody floods that zone and you get 50+ people in there competing over spawns and arguing over loot?

i remember playing the guild wars stress test weekend between betas for wow, and the way they solved this problem was by giving zones a population cap before a new version of the zone was instanced, but you could freely switch between the two depending on where you needed to be. imagine velks is at 40 pop, you zone in as 41, but instead it sends you to your own instance where you're number 1. you realise that your group is in the other instance, and you switch over. the population goes up to 41 and after zoning, you run up to your camp. the next people that zone in are in a group, and now they're the only ones in their own zone.

[Demetrium]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you guys seem to ignore one major factor in the decision to use instancing: population

if a static zone is only capable of supporting 3 or 4 groups of casual EXPers, then what happens with the server population is at a point where 7 or 8 groups need to EXP there?

think velks from velious. it's the premier EXP zone for the expansion 55-60, and yet can only support 5 EXP groups max. what happens on p99 when everybody floods that zone and you get 50+ people in there competing over spawns and arguing over loot?

i remember playing the guild wars stress test weekend between betas for wow, and the way they solved this problem was by giving zones a population cap before a new version of the zone was instanced, but you could freely switch between the two depending on where you needed to be. imagine velks is at 40 pop, you zone in as 41, but instead it sends you to your own instance where you're number 1. you realise that your group is in the other instance, and you switch over. the population goes up to 41 and after zoning, you run up to your camp. the next people that zone in are in a group, and now they're the only ones in their own zone.

Velks was the "premier EXP zone" because people made it that way. Servers have always had population caps; Velious did not increase this cap and furthermore added another dungeon where you could level from 55-60. Additionally more "mains" would be 60 by now so you'd have yet another 55-60 dungeon for a theoretically smaller-than-before 55-59 population. There was absolutely nothing stopping you from leveling in Charasis, Chardok, etc. You can argue the loot was better in Velks, but it's not like it mudflated Kunark loot to garbage. You could always farm cash other places if you wanted to anyhow.

Your described problem is a product of a lazy population more than anything else and I see it all the time on this server. People would rather go to their one spot they know than explore than move and find something better. I don't know how many times I've been at a camp on P99 that can sustain 1-2 players at a high XP rate and seen 5+ people all sit there fighting for spawns. It becomes wildly inefficient for everyone involved when the last three people to show up could easily find different open camps.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Demetrium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There was absolutely nothing stopping you from leveling in Charasis, Chardok, etc.

Except for, I don't know, keys? faction? transportation?

Velks is the only end-game dungeon that doesn't require you to have to be able to port/gate to leave, doesn't require a key to enter, and/or doesn't kill your faction.

KC is out (rep). SG is out (unreachable). Dok is out (rep). Seb is out (keys/can't leave). HS is out (keys/can't leave/rep).

That's the reason velks was the premier dungeon. Add to that velious loot > kunark loot.

[Atmas]

I think the crappiness of GoD is what ended my playing and as well as for many other TZers. But GoD was also super instanced so yeah...

Instancing really hurt PvP in both EQ and WoW. LDoNs were fun but it was dumb that a person could level almost exclusively now out of harms way. Prior to the LDoN expansion people had to compete for the best xp spots and gear.

As for dungeon finder in WoW, a brilliantly coded tool wasted on a horrible player base. Most of the problems in WoW stem from the fact that the game caters to ease of play and solo progression. The result of which is a community of players lacking game and social skills.

[greatdane]

Instances introduce more problems than just the total decline of community and PvP environment, too. Suddenly there's no limit to how many times a day any given mob can be killed, so having tradeable items worth anything at all was out of the question. That led to overitemization because acquiring a given item was just a matter of doing the instance x amount of times, and usually not nearly as many times as you would have to try to get an item the traditional way in old-fashioned dungeons. It also forced instances to have copious rewards, because nobody would be satisfied with an instance that just had XP mobs. This further encouraged the over-itemization since any given instance run would be guaranteed to produce far more and better rewards than the same amount of time spent in an actual dungeon. This first started in LDoN where you got not only drops from bosses but also points to buy more items with - usually a full set that was superior to anything you could acquire with similar effort elsewhere - and suddenly there was far too much emphasis on equipment. In Classic/Kunark, you're not useless if you're undergeared, and something like a set of mixed Crafted and Cobalt pieces can absolutely last you until the very upper levels. When content eventually had to over-reward players for participation, that content also had to be tuned so as to require those rewards, increasing the gap between those who had acquired the rewards and those who hadn't. In the end, we got the result that is now a fact in every MMORPG: those with good gear have twice as high stats, DPS, mana etc. as those without it, and the two demographics can't interact in any meaningful way, whether PvP or PvE.

[Nytewind TP]

Instances were needed in LDoN, but yes other than that I hate Instances. Instances in EQ2 were just F'ing lame. They instancted normal zones.

[Yukahwa]

Instances are opposed to the very nature of a MMORPG and represent the degradation that is caused by marketing these games for mass appeal to attract the greatest number of players possible.

All of these easy-mode games are there to maximize their ability to make people feel accomplished without requiring much actual toil from those players. Us EQ freaks like the grind and the fact that hitting level 60 means you went through some gruesomely slow levels.

Other games are just there to make you feel fancy..give you armor with special FX and crazy names and quests you can accomplish in 5 minutes. Way cool.