Another Perspective

[jimthayner]

Originally Posted by Curmudgen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jim what is your point? You made your point, and you stated your point. Anything more and you are just arguing like a curmudgeon. Allthese conversations drive me a little batty as everyone seems to want to have the last "word".

I don't think you've seen a debate before. Someone makes a point, there is a counter point, then a rebuttal etc... Open forums, discussion, and making counter points and rebuttals is kinda something that's done in America, and free societies in general.

If its driving you batty, stop reading. If you don't like anti-cheating rules, stop playing P1999.

[purist]

Originally Posted by Ektar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP is that dude that sits in front of a philosophy class and points out stupid shit that he thinks is an earth-shattering new thought.

IT'S BECAUSE OF YOU I HAD TO STOP GOING TO CLASS. IT'S BECAUSE OF YOU I ONLY GOT A B+

[Uthgaard]

Ugh. Ever had one of those in a chemistry class? It's worse because she needs to talk even longer.

[AimAce]

I WAS AND AM THAT PERSON =(

[jimthayner]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ugh. Ever had one of those in a chemistry class? It's worse because she needs to talk even longer.

They're generally liberal, and think all the world's problems can be solved with peace/love. But in a chemistry class?

"How do we know that quarks really exist? We can't see them!!11!!111!!!!"

I'm usually used to the liberal student and the liberal professor jacking off to how evil the military is and how we need to understand where the Taliban is coming from and make peace with them.

[fuark]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ugh. Ever had one of those in a chemistry class? It's worse because she needs to talk even longer.

I had one in an accounting class. Omfg.

[KB_Trader]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Going by jim now jessica?

I have a question, and it's really more curiosity than anything. Does SoE know you were using your position with them as a security consultant to compromise p99 accounts? Do you think the more clandestine activities you participate in could be tied to being responsible for that big compromise that they had? I mean, they don't hire the best or the brightest, so they probably never thought to conduct an internal investigation. They're still looking for someone to lynch for that, aren't they? Man, that would be a lot of jail time. Toeman would miss you I bet.

More info on this. Sounds juicy.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by jimthayner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If someone wants to cite legal precedent, make a coherent argument, or say something other than "well, Sony isn't losing anything, therefore its okay" I'd like to hear it.

I'm certainly not an expert on copyright law, but it's my understanding that, in order to be criminal, there have to be certain factors involved.

1) commercial advantage or private financial gain.
2) reproduction or distribution of a work that has retail value
3) distribution of a work intended for commercial distribution

Anything and everything tied into copyright law has to do with value and damages received from the loss of said value.

IF Sony recreated a totally classic environment then it might be different. It could be argued that classic is so far removed from "live" that it's not the same game. Sony doesn't see the market, they don't feel they're really being hurt financially, otherwise they'd squash the project like a bug.

As far as copyright itself is concerned, corporations and lobbyists have made sure that the original intention of copyright will never see the light of day...but that's another argument.

EDIT: The "we're all cheaters so it doesn't matter" slant is ummm...BS, btw. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[jimthayner]

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm certainly not an expert on copyright law, but it's my understanding that, in order to be criminal, there have to be certain factors involved.

1) commercial advantage or private financial gain.
2) reproduction or distribution of a work that has retail value
3) distribution of a work intended for commercial distribution

Anything and everything tied into copyright law has to do with value and damages received from the loss of said value.

IF Sony recreated a totally classic environment then it might be different. It could be argued that classic is so far removed from "live" that it's not the same game. Sony doesn't see the market, they don't feel they're really being hurt financially, otherwise they'd squash the project like a bug.

As far as copyright itself is concerned, corporations and lobbyists have made sure that the original intention of copyright will never see the light of day...but that's another argument.

Those are common misconceptions about copyright law. I cited some case law (MDY Industries v Blizzard) According to the Digital Rights Millennium Act, software license holders are obligated by law to abide by the End User License Agreement. This is something usually handled in civil court.

The fact that Sony does not offer Everquest with only vanilla and Kunark is irrelevant, as the DRMA and subsequent precedent make it clear that only the EULA matters, not if someone is profiting/doing any harm.

Aside from that, I agree that copyright law is a little out of hand. Blizzard should have lost its lawsuit with MDY Industries as I do not believe that copying data from a hard drive to RAM should constitute copyright infringement.

Blizzard was well within their rights to ban players caught using Glider, but they should not have "won the case" on hard drive to RAM constituting copyright infringement. The status quo should have been maintained, Blizzard has every right to ban people who cheat, but since WoW Glider was NOT stealing any code from Blizzard (they merely made their own, unique, third party software).

A man's computer is his castle, and if he wants to edit the memory of what is on his computer, he should have every right to do so. But MMO companies are well within their rights to decide who gets to play their game and who does not.

[Uthgaard]

If you spent half as much effort looking into these things as you did typing walls of text, you'd find interviews with smedley saying he likes p99 and wont pursue action as long as p99 doesn't charge. GG. Derp.

And a man's computer is his castle? You're confusing your clichés