Discussion: PvP Deaths (Item/Coin/XP Loot/Gain)

[God-King Abacab]

Originally Posted by Rushmore [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The major problem I see with any team proposal is this...

People want to play with who they want to play with. If you are on a team for instance and they don't like yo ass what options do you have?

So your team kills naggy and they don't ever allow you to roll on loot? What then? Can you attack them?

I like FFA for that very reason. PVP should be more like the real world, I think that's why most enjoy it. I don't walk outside and know that the crack looking dude walking down the street won't kill me because he is on my team.

Teams are weak sauce in my opinion. But I for one wouldn't play if there were teams.

I like teams for the opposite reason.

You gave the example of "I don't walk outside and know that the crack looking dude walking down the street won't kill me because he is on my team." it's quite the transverse to be honest with you. I walk around hipsterville because I know it's just a bunch of skinny white kids that don't do shit and I feel safe there, but if I left hipsterville and tried to get a drink in little Mexico I would feel at edge because I am out of my element.

Teams allows people to become comfortable in their own setting, they don't have to worry about that level 7 mage they've been leveling with turning on them the moment he mems his next pet spell, but can instead focus on the group of trolls moving in to crushbone and forcing your friends out.

In short.

FFA is self-defense
Teams is territorial

[vinx]

Playing the elven team on VZ i can tell you that teams is kinda cool for the roleplay aspect (purists players/guilds)
but, there are times and people on my own team I WISH I COULD KILL BUT CANT!!!!!!!!!

QQ

[JayDee]

I think cabster is trying to intentionally troll rogean into ruining the server.

Can we just have Null run the operation please

[God-King Abacab]

Originally Posted by vinx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Playing the elven team on VZ i can tell you that teams is kinda cool for the roleplay aspect (purists players/guilds)
but, there are times and people on my own team I WISH I COULD KILL BUT CANT!!!!!!!!!

QQ

You can kill them but you'd just be labeled a kinslayer, which put you on the same line as griefers, campers, and trainers. In all practicality if someone is a douche on your team it's reciprocated by the team at hand either by refusing to aid the player or blacklisting him til he re rolls to another team.

[Rushmore]

I like being able to have a dispute with a friend and deciding not to be friends anymore. In hipsterville most hipsters don't get along. They are too cool for one another.

[Pudge]

rather than teams, to address the problem you have abacab.. just auto-guild ppl when they start out. every level 1 gets auto-guilded into either a regional, race, deity, whatever kind of team i dont care. it can be just 1 guild across the entire server even for all i care.

that way ppl can make friends and start out with pre-made "friends" if they are new. and find other ppl they want to group with across the land by just typing "/gu hey guys anyone want a level 8 warrior?"

if you don't like your "team" (guild) then leave. these guilds might just remain newb guilds where players can meet eachother, or i could also even see some ppl staying in their original team guild and trying to make it a raid force.

but give ppl freedom, not forced "friends"

-------
EDIT: i take back the part about these pre-made guilds raiding. it is possible, but then they may have spies within their guild that they cannot boot out, because in this type of a guild there would be no guild officer/leader to kick them out. they would be un-killable till they left of their own choice. not good.

[God-King Abacab]

Originally Posted by Rushmore [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like being able to have a dispute with a friend and deciding not to be friends anymore. In hipsterville most hipsters don't get along. They are too cool for one another.

FFA only works if the year right now IS 1999

It doesn't work when people have been sitting in vent since March pre-planning what class, race, and guild name they will roll with on day one, and who will be the mage bitch power petting guards to grind to 50 first.

If you allow FFA, you're essentially allowing career virgins to run amok with Fish Bait sized guilds cockblocking content instead of actually, you know PvP and forge alliances.

[God-King Abacab]

Originally Posted by Pudge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

rather than teams, to address the problem you have abacab.. just auto-guild ppl when they start out. every level 1 gets auto-guilded into either a regional, race, deity, whatever kind of team i dont care. it can be just 1 guild across the entire server even for all i care.

that way ppl can make friends and start out with pre-made "friends" if they are new. and find other ppl they want to group with across the land by just typing "/gu hey guys anyone want a level 8 warrior?"

if you don't like your "team" (guild) then leave. these guilds might just remain newb guilds where players can meet eachother, or i could also even see some ppl staying in their original team guild and trying to make it a raid force.

but give ppl freedom, not forced "friends"

Pudge also is seeing the problem, I don't mind people making guilds with their friends and I'm sure Pudge doesn't either.However, it is detrimental to the server if you allow pre-made zerg guilds to power grind through content and completely control the economy of a server...

How is someone new to PvP or the server supposed to compete with 55 people of the same guild destroying everything in a zone waiting for another zerg guild of 55 to battle it out in Plane of Fear?

[Bardalicious]

Originally Posted by Rushmore [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think exp loss would deter PVP just like item loot.

Anything that would deter PVP is a big failure. Don't we all want the most PVP we can get???? WE don't want people to hide out and not take chances.... Death and corpse recovery is all we need.

NO Yellow Text would decrease PVP (YT would make people port into fights)
Item Loot would decrease PVP
EXP loss or Gain would decrease PVP
Being able to /who all zones would decrease PVP
Training allowed would decrease PVP
(other ideas?)

PVP > All rules that I'm more than sure will decrease PVP

A leaderboard would increase PVP
FFA for dungeons and raid zones would increase PVP
(other ideas?)

Ok, let's break this down.

I think exp loss would deter PVP just like item loot.

Why? You are comparing a penalty system to a reward/penalty system. If you only lose xp from PVP and not gain it, how is that in any way similar to being able to both TAKE items and LOSE them too? You also have the option of what gear to wear and when to bag it, controlling to a degree the items you can lose. Exp on PVP death, however, is an entirely unavoidable penalty.

NO Yellow Text would decrease PVP (YT would make people port into fights)

Yellow text does nothing except to boost egos. Let's be serious about this for a minute. How many times in the past few boxes did yellow text end up resulting in more PVP occuring than would have anyways? If you are looking for PVP in classic EQ, shit man, you're gonna find it. Level 35+ ? Hit all the zones those people would hang out in. It's a pretty short fucking list, I assure you. You are unwisely comparing the small populations of the past boxes to what Red99 will surely reach. There will be no issue of not "finding" PVP.

Item Loot would decrease PVP

You are making a claim with absolutely no supporting evidence. Yes, potentially losing items in PVP is a detriment, and to counter-balance that, you can gain them as well. This should be a non-factor if they implement an opt-in system for those of us that want to participate in item looting anyways, so there is no real reason to argue about it.

Being able to /who all zones would decrease PVP

So let me get this straight... you want yellow text to broadcast when someone dies in PVP because it's somehow going to "generate more PVP" for that zone, yet having the ability to see how populated a zone is without being there first will somehow hinder it? No, I don't think /w all zone should show players that have ANON on, but I also don't understand the logic behind your argument.

A leaderboard would increase PVP

Again, another unsubstantiated claim. How exactly will a leaderboard increase PVP? The only thing that YT and Leaderboard systems promote is shady PVP behavior, which we've seen proof of time and time again on EQEmu. Are you really a fan of being ganked with harmtouch on zoning in somewhere just so that shitty SK can get his yellow text and leaderboard position on? Why would a PVP server, that players are electing to play and PVP on, need yellow text or a leaderboard to entice them to PVP?

Anything that would deter PVP is a big failure. Don't we all want the most PVP we can get????

I play EQ PVP because of the difficulty behind it, obviously you play it for an entirely different reason. These talks of respawning with full gear, having no penalties on death etc. remind me of a different game - WoW Arena PVP.

EverQuest was such a good game in its early years because of the constant feeling of danger it created. Because when you died in PVE or in PVP, you paid the price for it. You're proposing that the only thing people want to do is constantly be able to fight each other without having to worry about the penalties for losing - and I'm telling you that you're playing the wrong game man. EQ PVE and PVP started going down the shitter when they started wow-ifying things, and some of the things being discussed on these forums is exactly what's being proposed.

Why don't we just implement out of combat regen rates, health, mana, regen and DS pots and throw in PoKnowledge as well? I mean, all of those things encourage omg-fast-arenastyle-WoW-PVP too right? I'm not trying to sound too flamey about this shit, but honestly, do you guys stop to think about these suggestions before bringing them up?

[Bardalicious]

Originally Posted by Rushmore [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The major problem I see with any team proposal is this...

People want to play with who they want to play with. If you are on a team for instance and they don't like yo ass what options do you have?

So your team kills naggy and they don't ever allow you to roll on loot? What then? Can you attack them?

I like FFA for that very reason. PVP should be more like the real world, I think that's why most enjoy it. I don't walk outside and know that the crack looking dude walking down the street won't kill me because he is on my team.

Teams are weak sauce in my opinion. But I for one wouldn't play if there were teams.

This I can agree with you on. I do not like team based PVP. Someone like Abacab wants team PVP strictly because he wants to force people to group with him due to the reputation he has amassed. How is that our fault or our problem?

Any class and/or race should be allowed to ally with anyone else in the game. EverQuest has guilds for a reason - if you want to ally, join a guild and stop acting like a bitch to everyone you play with. Implementing team PVP to force people to have to "deal with you" is not a solution to the problem. You need to start looking at yourself in that regard, cab. When it comes down to it, as Rushmore said, if a group of people don't like you, you'll be outcast anyways, whether or not they can PK you.