AC softcap and low level hardcap discussion

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it's a level 5 mob, surely it is tuned for a dude wearing a bunch of cloth and patchwork armor?

That is exactly correct. Haynar's formula is designed to prevent someone with like 150 AC from always taking minimum damage at level 5.

Going from 23 AC to 55 AC gave me a 35% damage reduction at level 5. Going from 55 AC to 100 AC would be a huge boost uncapped.

Occam's razor suggests Haynar put this low level AC cap in so low levels with high AC will still have a bit of a challenge when fighting mobs of roughly equal level. I don't think it is more complicated than that.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is exactly correct. Haynar's formula is designed to prevent someone with like 150 AC from always taking minimum damage.

Going from 23 AC to 55 AC gave me a 35% damage reduction. Going from 55 AC to 100 AC would be a huge boost uncapped.

Occam's razor suggests Haynar put this low level AC cap in so low levels with high AC will still have a bit of a challenge when fighting mobs of roughly equal level. I don't think it is more complicated than that.

I understood that Haynar put them in, because an article on how the AC changes (late Sol/PoP) were implemented mentioned there was antitwink code which capped worn AC by level, so he put in his best guess for what they would be?

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it's a level 5 mob, surely it is tuned for a dude wearing a bunch of cloth and patchwork armor?

Full patchwork is 19, so wouldn't surprise me if the squelch point for a level 5 mob would be 20-25. But DSM found it's above 23, so maybe something like 30.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Full patchwork is 19, so wouldn't surprise me if the squelch point for a level 5 mob would be 20-25. But DSM found it's above 23, so maybe something like 30.

Yeah I'll do a few tests between 23 and 55. Then I will test leveling up to 6 and see if the AC cap moves to 61. That would be the next cap in Haynar's formula.

[bcbrown]

I would suggest using a level 10 toon to find a mob with a squelch point above 55 AC. Then rerun the same experiment as before on a level 5 toon with AC of 25, 55, squelch-point.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would suggest using a level 10 toon to find a mob with a squelch point above 55 AC. Then rerun the same experiment as before on a level 5 toon with AC of 25, 55, squelch-point.

I don't think you need to do the level 10 test.

My data already shows near identical results for 55 AC and 178 AC. We also know that going from 23 AC to 55 AC is a 35% damage reduction, so clearly more AC is working somewhere between 23 AC and 55 AC.

What it sounds like is I need to do a test at 40 AC and 50 AC to determine if I get identical results to the 55 AC test and 178 AC test sometime before 55 AC. If I get those results, then a "squelch point" exists somewhere between 23 AC and 55 AC. If I see damage reduction improvements instead at 50-54 AC, that would mean Haynar's formula is in effect.

Is that fair?

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What it sounds like is I need to do a test at 40 AC and 50 AC to determine if I get identical results to the 55 AC test and 178 AC test sometime before 55 AC. If I get those results, then a "squelch point" exists somewhere between 23 AC and 55 AC. If I see damage reduction improvements instead at 50-54 AC, that would mean Haynar's formula is in effect.

Identical results at 45 and 50 AC, right? Looks like the squelch point is about 45.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Identical results at 45 and 50 AC, right? Looks like the squelch point is about 45.

=================================
55 AC Test, 12 of this AC is from a shield
=================================

DV, Count
1, 178
2, 22
3, 22
4, 16
5, 33
6, 25
7, 21
8, 12
9, 24
10, 30
11, 16
12, 1

Total Damage = 1614

What you think is the "squelch point" may just be the softcap. As you can see, equipping a shield did affect the result, even with the same AC. This makes sense when we look at what Haynar said:

Adding a shield increases ur softcap

At low levels the softcap is more level based than defense based. I basically doubled transition so at low levels ac means more.

I added a low level raw ac cap of level * 6 + 25.

So far the data seems to support what Haynar said, the guy who implemented this stuff.

[bcbrown]

No, that's insufficient. You would still have the possibility of this mob having a squelch point of 55 AC.

You need to find a mob with a squelch point above the Haynar cap of the toon you're using for the experiment.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, that's insufficient. You would still have the possibility of this mob having a squelch point of 55 AC.

You need to find a mob with a squelch point above the Haynar cap of the toon you're using for the experiment.

A level 10 toon would have quite a bit more defense skill, so that may throw off the test to be honest. That is my hesitation.

How about this. I find a level 5 skeleton and leave it up. I will level to 6 on my bard, and go back to that mob. I'll check if I get damage reduction between 55 AC and 61 AC. If 61 AC becomes the new cap, this will show 55 AC isn't the squelch point, and Haynar's formula is in effect.

Fair?