AC softcap and low level hardcap discussion

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I thought based on the running theory it’s pretty easy to hit the cap. I don’t know stuff about squelches though [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People say 1200+ is the magic number. It would be interesting to see if that’s placebo or measurable reality as it might influence the use of HGL’s, shields, and other items (BP of Eradication vs Vindi), etc.

Based on the EQEMU code, the softcap would be 300 worn AC for plate classes like Warrior and Knights. I think my SK has like 250 right now. Not saying I won't run any tests, but my SK hasn't focused on AC gear. I think I could hit 300 with sword and board, but I wouldn't be able to go way over.

I can hit around 400 worn AC with my Shaman(no buffs), and the cap should be lower than 300.

[Snaggles]

I’m sure that would be interesting for some. Shamans tend to stack AC to very high levels. I’d hate to dash dreams but better to know if it’s doing something before picking up thousands of DKP of AC gear for a torp tank.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What would be the purpose of Haynar's formula if the "squelch point" was under 55 AC? If they both did the same thing, Haynar's formula would just be redundant.

Also, why do you think this mob's squelch point is under 55 AC?

it's a level 5 mob, surely it is tuned for a dude wearing a bunch of cloth and patchwork armor?

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I will try my test first. Honestly I don't have time to level a character to 30 just to do all of this.

If you are worried about an overlap between the squelch point and the Haynar cap, increasing your level by 1 would show you if the squelch point was 55 AC or not.

If I tested 10 different level 5 mobs, and the AC cap was 55 for all of them, that would be evidence of the Haynar cap as well. This is because the Haynar cap and the squelch point would be 100% redundant if they were always the same value.

Sure, do as you like, I'm just explaining the level of rigor in methodology and experiment design before I'd accept the results as conclusive. Proper science takes a lot of time, and there's a reason I haven't wanted to do this [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For what it's worth, the "squelch point" stuff for me is no more than a working hypothesis, not conclusive. It's the best theory to fit the data obtained, but there's a lot more experiments necessary for it to be conclusive.

Your proposed experiment will provide some clues, but no proof. For one thing, I worry that a single level's difference won't be enough difference to discern the signal from the noise. But if you want to run some smaller experiments, here's what I'd suggest:
First, run parses at level 5 at 40 and 50 AC. If the squelch point is lower than 55 AC than you should be able to find what the value is.

Next, level up to 10, running parses at each level. Run at least 1000 hits/parse. Keep an eye out for what Jimjam noticed, and see whether there's a constant proportion of min/max hits in each parse. At each level first parse at the Haynar cap, and then remove AC in increments of 5-10 until you find the squelch point at that level.

That won't be enough for anything conclusive, but it should be suggestive.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it's a level 5 mob, surely it is tuned for a dude wearing a bunch of cloth and patchwork armor?

That is exactly correct. Haynar's formula is designed to prevent someone with like 150 AC from always taking minimum damage at level 5.

Going from 23 AC to 55 AC gave me a 35% damage reduction at level 5. Going from 55 AC to 100 AC would be a huge boost uncapped.

Occam's razor suggests Haynar put this low level AC cap in so low levels with high AC will still have a bit of a challenge when fighting mobs of roughly equal level. I don't think it is more complicated than that.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is exactly correct. Haynar's formula is designed to prevent someone with like 150 AC from always taking minimum damage.

Going from 23 AC to 55 AC gave me a 35% damage reduction. Going from 55 AC to 100 AC would be a huge boost uncapped.

Occam's razor suggests Haynar put this low level AC cap in so low levels with high AC will still have a bit of a challenge when fighting mobs of roughly equal level. I don't think it is more complicated than that.

I understood that Haynar put them in, because an article on how the AC changes (late Sol/PoP) were implemented mentioned there was antitwink code which capped worn AC by level, so he put in his best guess for what they would be?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I understood that Haynar put them in, because an article on how the AC changes (late Sol/PoP) were implemented mentioned there was antitwink code which capped worn AC by level, so he put in his best guess for what they would be?

I don't know the history very well. I am just testing to see if it exists on P99 right now.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it's a level 5 mob, surely it is tuned for a dude wearing a bunch of cloth and patchwork armor?

Full patchwork is 19, so wouldn't surprise me if the squelch point for a level 5 mob would be 20-25. But DSM found it's above 23, so maybe something like 30.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Full patchwork is 19, so wouldn't surprise me if the squelch point for a level 5 mob would be 20-25. But DSM found it's above 23, so maybe something like 30.

Yeah I'll do a few tests between 23 and 55. Then I will test leveling up to 6 and see if the AC cap moves to 61. That would be the next cap in Haynar's formula.

[bcbrown]

Test at 61 AC while at level 5 too. And please run 1000 hits/parse, the fact that the min+max frequency at 23 AC being different from 55 makes me worry the sample size is too small.

Thinking about it once more, I'm very confident you'll find the exact same results at 61 AC at level 6. This is because there's just not many more max hits left. 6-7 of 400 is 1.75%. So I expect you'll see 1-2% max hits and ~40% min hits at level 6 and 61 AC.