most underpowered group class in the game

[Keza]

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's wrong with being specific. Last thread devolved into all the raid meatheads when it was a general question to begin with.

A general question yet your problem with it is that it "devolved" into specific aspects of the game that are pertinent to the point asked by the thread. In other words, you disagreed so you made a different thread that portrayed your specific view in a better light.

It wasn't even your thread (or maybe it was as it's a general bait post) and you made a dupe thread claiming the other was hijacked, devolved and everyone is wrong about how they play the game. If you aren't going to debate the point you're just looking for people to agree with you.

[eqravenprince]

Originally Posted by Keza [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A general question yet your problem with it is that it "devolved" into specific aspects of the game that are pertinent to the point asked by the thread. In other words, you disagreed so you made a different thread that portrayed your specific view in a better light.

It wasn't even your thread (or maybe it was as it's a general bait post) and you made a dupe thread claiming the other was hijacked, devolved and everyone is wrong about how they play the game. If you aren't going to debate the point you're just looking for people to agree with you.

I only wanted to read people's opinion about group game, it's as simple as that. And yeah, I insulted certain type of people who think EQ is only about raiding. Raiding sucks, and plenty of people could care less about it. As for debating, I have been when I have time to post. No one has really said anything to change my mind about wizards being the most underpowered group class and warriors being 2nd most underpowered. Wizard it's obvious, they have zero sustained DPS, can't heal, can't debuff, can't buff, have burst damage and root which many classes have. As for Warrior, SK and Pally tank better which is the primary purpose, and you really only need 1 tank, that leaves DPS which Warrior is behind many classes in that department.

[eunomios]

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that leaves DPS which Warrior is behind many classes in that department.

Warrior in beserker rage is broken/OP when done right. Crits do trail off a bit at higher levels when mob AC starts to advance. A warrior in a high level XP group is a rep tank when the current Tank has to afk or log out. Being able to use Defensive Disc once in awhile to let healers med a bit or when shit hits the fan is very very nice also. If parsed I think it would open a lot of eyes. The higher skill caps and potential Crits do translate well to compete with Monk Kicks and Rogue Backstabs.... and ofc the warrior can tank when needed better than a rogue anyway.

Everyone loves Paladins and Shadowknights but if I had to form a min/max group the tank would be a Warrior and 30 mana would be spent to root the main assist mob, or there'd be a mage earth pet because Warriors do much better dmg. basicly... pull mob, root mob, warrior taunts and every1 goes ham. By the 20s 3 med ticks covers a root, and even less once clarity is avail, Earth pets are freee. A good DPS group doesn't care about mobs turning at low health with snare to save on taking dmg bc shit goes 15pct to 0 in no time - Also Dmg shields. Hybrid tanks that have to pull can't med and need break prior to clarity.

AND Warriors HAVE NO EXP PENALTY for the chucnk of classic EQ that Hybrid tanks do !

[Toxigen]

1-59 wizard

60 mage

there, op's tits are calmed

[eqravenprince]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1-59 wizard

60 mage

there, op's tits are calmed

Haha, I'm calm, and I like tits calm or not =)

[Fammaden]

So when you say "grouping" I'm going to assume you mean the traditional six-man experience group. Not a duo or a trio, or even a four man group, an XP group that seeks to fill to six players and grind straight xp as the goal.

For a full XP group the goal is always chain pulling. You always want a mob dying in camp non stop as much as possible. This was true in the year 2000 and its still true today.

The reason wizards have long been called the worst group class is because they are the most inefficient class for accomplishing the chain killing goal. A pure dps class that has built in downtime based around burst damage just loses out to any class who can sustain dps without downtime from one mob to the next.

As far as utility there is literally nothing a wizard can do that another class can't do as well or better, and many times can fill the role with a wider range of utility tools than a wizard. Druid is a close second worst group class due to being so wildly inefficient compared to clerics and shamans. But overall a druid can offer everything a wizard can plus significant extra utility potential, especially in outdoor xp zones and yes there are lots of popular outdoor flagged group xp spots at any given time.

Another thing that was as true in 2000 as it is today is that there's never any shortage of people who want to stand up and defend the wizard as a grouping class. But no matter the rationalizations, the wizard by design can never really carry its weight effectively in a chain pulling full XP group. This doesn't mean they can't contribute anything to a group theoretically or that no one should ever invite them. But they are the worst class for a six man XP group and its not close.

DSM is right, its an asymmetrical game, not all classes were created equal. The other thread was more interesting for the most part because the answer to this question is long past settled, expect for the white knight grouping wizard apologists.

[eunomios]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

white knight grouping wizard apologists.

I mean... to be fair an enchanter cleric wizard AE group is de facto the fastest way to earn exp in EQ from classic to whenever the Devs nerf it.

But for a general PuG... wizards should just know they are leeching.

[Fammaden]

Yeah I wasn't counting the AE group, I was assuming generally PuG groups as well, and even back in the old days those were generally premade and/or guild groups.

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one has really said anything to change my mind about wizards being the most underpowered group class and warriors being 2nd most underpowered. Wizard it's obvious, they have zero sustained DPS, can't heal, can't debuff, can't buff, have burst damage and root which many classes have. As for Warrior, SK and Pally tank better which is the primary purpose, and you really only need 1 tank, that leaves DPS which Warrior is behind many classes in that department.

The thing about tanks though is groups often find themselves wanting/needing one, even though each group only needs one. So some days as a warrior you'll be stuck LFG but many days you'll get fast invites, especially if you even have a little bit of decent gear/weapons and aren't completely afkterrible as a player.

And as long as someone roots shit warriors are better meatshields anyway. So unlike druids and wizards you'll actually get quite a lot of group invites as a warrior, making them a significantly more powerful PuG class overall even if their aggro/pull toolkit is lacking compared to knights.

[eqravenprince]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The thing about tanks though is groups often find themselves wanting/needing one, even though each group only needs one. So some days as a warrior you'll be stuck LFG but many days you'll get fast invites, especially if you even have a little bit of decent gear/weapons and aren't completely afkterrible as a player.

And as long as someone roots shit warriors are better meatshields anyway. So unlike druids and wizards you'll actually get quite a lot of group invites as a warrior, making them a significantly more powerful PuG class overall even if their aggro/pull toolkit is lacking compared to knights.

If you already have a healer, then yeah, adding a Druid is worse than Warrior. I will admit that. However, because Druids can do multiple things, they are fantastic to have in a pick up group just due to that flexibility. Yes, you could get a bit more DPS without the Druid, but keeping the group rolling when people leave is more important.