Rules regarding camps when someone has gotten the named spawn

[Zenren]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, play TLP if you want instancing and easy shots at items. Non-instanced games are designed around scarcity. There isn't a problem with the current setup. The game is working as intended.

There will always be no lifer people in games, you can't fix that. The way most games dealt with it was instancing, but the charm of P99 is it is one of the few MMOs left without instancing. Seriously, go play literally every other MMO if you don't like non-instsancing. Trying to change P99 because you want it to be a different game is just selfish.



Its not unecessarily unclassic. You already gave the reason for it's necessity. Unlike live, where they had paid GMs, our staff is volunteer. We need a PnP that incentivises people to act like adults and solve their own problems before requiring a GM. The camp owner is the best bet at an impartial party when solving a dispute.

This is why normal people wont play this game, or leave shortly after starting. I've found that the majority, like 99% of the people that play Project 1999 are people who played back when they were young, and are trying to relive their youth, or people with no ability to pay for a subscription based game that play this in lieu of other free games. Normal people with responsibilities, even the ones who loved the game back then, skip it once they see the state of the game now. I think part of that is just the sheer difficulty of trying to get items, because money camps and raid items are consistently camped by the same guilds who are controlling the raid environment and economy. If you break that stranglehold then you allow everyone a piece of the pie, rather than the 3% of the server that can spend the time camping these locations.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Zenren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is why normal people wont play this game, or leave shortly after starting. I've found that the majority, like 99% of the people that play Project 1999 are people who played back when they were young, and are trying to relive their youth, or people with no ability to pay for a subscription based game that play this in lieu of other free games. Normal people with responsibilities, even the ones who loved the game back then, skip it once they see the state of the game now. I think part of that is just the sheer difficulty of trying to get items, because money camps and raid items are consistently camped by the same guilds who are controlling the raid environment and economy. If you break that stranglehold then you allow everyone a piece of the pie, rather than the 3% of the server that can spend the time camping these locations.

The problem is the game isn't built for a population like this where everyone knows where the best stuff is and is capable of soloing it. There's plenty of camps in the game, but people only ever want to do the same 20 or 30 camps that have the best drops. Nobody's camping any of the loot in Dalnir or Runnyeye or Nurga or Paw or two dozen other dungeons because the loot distribution for the difficulty is crap.

If you really want the classic experience, stop crying about the couple dozen locked down cash camps and do some dungeon crawls in the empty zones with friends in cloth armor. That's way more fun than waiting for a rare drop on a 22 minute timer.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zenren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is why normal people wont play this game, or leave shortly after starting. I've found that the majority, like 99% of the people that play Project 1999 are people who played back when they were young, and are trying to relive their youth, or people with no ability to pay for a subscription based game that play this in lieu of other free games. Normal people with responsibilities, even the ones who loved the game back then, skip it once they see the state of the game now. I think part of that is just the sheer difficulty of trying to get items, because money camps and raid items are consistently camped by the same guilds who are controlling the raid environment and economy. If you break that stranglehold then you allow everyone a piece of the pie, rather than the 3% of the server that can spend the time camping these locations.

And it is fine that "normal" people don't play P99. Not everyone has to like or play P99. You even have the option to play TLP or Live if you want an Everquest-like experience with easy progression. Live has a freemium model if you are unable to afford 15 dollars a month for a subscription. In all honesty though, if you can't afford 15 dollars a month, you probably don't have time to play games anyway. At least not games like P99. Even if you put in rotations on everything, you would never get the item you want anyway. Rotations do not change the mob timers or item rarity, so you would still be waiting many hours at a time.

Obviously the majority of P99 players enjoy the non-instancing, or the server would have died years ago. You can't really claim most people on P99 agree with you. Ten years of non-instancing prove what players prefer.

Take a look at another game, Dark Souls. That game is purposefully challenging, which means it will turn off casual players. The game isn't meant for them, and that is completely fine. Dark Souls isn't going to change just because it can't satisfy everbody. Those players can find another game to match their playstyle and time requirements.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Zenren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is why normal people wont play this game, or leave shortly after starting.

You're intentionally conflating two different topics in order to pretend like the raid scene is disturbing casual camps.

You have an agenda.

Please quit disguising your complaint about the raid scene with this passive shit about idol camp.

If you want to raid, join a guild of more like minded players.

Quit playing the victim and start playing the game.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Zenren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is why normal people wont play this game, or leave shortly after starting. I've found that the majority, like 99% of the people that play Project 1999 are people who played back when they were young, and are trying to relive their youth, or people with no ability to pay for a subscription based game that play this in lieu of other free games. Normal people with responsibilities, even the ones who loved the game back then, skip it once they see the state of the game now. I think part of that is just the sheer difficulty of trying to get items, because money camps and raid items are consistently camped by the same guilds who are controlling the raid environment and economy. If you break that stranglehold then you allow everyone a piece of the pie, rather than the 3% of the server that can spend the time camping these locations.

This is just totally an incorrect assessment of people on P99. I have plenty of responsibilities and still enjoy playing. Countless of people on the server are married, have kids, have extremely demanding jobs, etc. You seem like you’re just upset because you can’t have whatever you want whenever you want (which ironically makes you seem like a childish person and therefore not a “normal” person…).

Also, people playing P99 because they can’t afford a 10 dollar subscription to another MMO? Lmao what are you even talking about

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Zenren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This isn't entirely true. GMs would move people on when they saw them at a camp for excessive periods of time. You couldn't just live at a camp 24/7. In regards to project 1999, if you alternated characters that would be one thing, but changing who is playing the same character is just stupid, there should be a time limit on how long one character can stay at a camp in my opinion. Again Everquest grew, Project 1999 is stopped in time. The design was never for people to live in the Velious environment for a decade. You have to adapt to how the players are changing the environment, or the environment doesn't work for anyone except the people without a job or any real responsibilities who are monopolizing spawns so they can control the end game content and economy.

Depended on what server you were on. Some servers' the GMs cared about fairness and fun more than others.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Idols should have been nerfed a long time ago just like Ivandyr's Hoop. Make it a rarer drop and put a 2 second casting time on it.

As far as camp lockdowns, those are most definitely classic. It's not like there weren't no-life neckbeards in 1999. The options are the same now as they were then: Either move on and find something else to do, or hang around and annoy the crap out of them with your own no-life neckbeardiness until they get perturbed and leave.

Gee, if only we had the exact rulebook used by the GMs during the classic period to know that's not true ... oh wait, we do!

(Emphasis added)

8.2.3 Contested Spawn Complaints
When a complaint is received indicating that a spawn or kill is contested, a disruption investigation should first be initiated according to the procedures of section 8.2.2 to determine if harassment or Zone/Area disruption is occurring. After following those procedures and issuing warnings as necessary, instruct the parties involved in the contested spawn situation to work out a compromise. Then leave the scene.

If another complaint is received involving the same spawn site, another disruption investigation should be initiated. After following those procedures and issuing warnings as necessary, if any of the parties involved were involved in the initial situation, establish a compromise for the parties to which the parties are required to abide. The compromise should be as described in section 8.2.3.1. Any party refusing to abide by the compromise established by the CS Representative should be issued a warning for disruption.

On PvP servers, where players can reach a solution to the contested spawn situation, the CS Representative does not need to require the players to share the spawn.

8.2.3.1
The compromise will require all parties to take turns killing the spawn(s). All parties involved in the contested spawn should be instructed to use /random 0 100 to choose a number. The CS Representative then uses /random 0 100. The individual with the closest number to the CS Representative’s number will be next in the rotation. The CS Representative then bases the rest of the rotation order on how close the other parties’ numbers were to theirs. The compromise established by a CS Representative must be objective and not require the CS Representative to choose one customer over another based on subjective criteria. The CS Representative is the arbiter in any disputes in establishing the compromise.

It even specifically references using /random to determine who gets the camp ... ie. exactly what I've been saying we should do here.

Again, our PnP are unclassic, but often necessarily so because of our all volunteer GMs. In this particular case however, it's unnecessarily unclassic.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gee, if only we had the exact rulebook used by the GMs during the classic period to know that's not true ... oh wait, we do!

(Emphasis added)



It even specifically references using /random to determine who gets the camp ... ie. exactly what I've been saying we should do here.

Again, our PnP are unclassic, but often necessarily so because of our all volunteer GMs. In this particular case however, it's unnecessarily unclassic.

Eh, post it in the bugs forum. It'll get patched in a year or two.

[karadin]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gee, if only we had the exact rulebook used by the GMs during the classic period to know that's not true ... oh wait, we do!

(Emphasis added)



It even specifically references using /random to determine who gets the camp ... ie. exactly what I've been saying we should do here.

Again, our PnP are unclassic, but often necessarily so because of our all volunteer GMs. In this particular case however, it's unnecessarily unclassic.

Loramin I respect your point of view here but I also think you are completely misinterpreting this rule.

Monopolies were definitely classic. Many of us lived through it for VP, ST, and VT key days. The monopolization in the disruption handbook had nothing to do with what we're talking about here. That was more like taking an entire zone or large area for yourself. If you were camping a single mob and handing the camp off to guildmates, there was nothing wrong with that. It's how the game was always played. If you petitioned a GM because you thought you were entitled to a camp someone else was killing at and wanted to pass to a guildmate they would tell you to kick dirt.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by karadin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loramin I respect your point of view here but I also think you are completely misinterpreting this rule.

Monopolies were definitely classic. Many of us lived through it for VP, ST, and VT key days. The monopolization in the disruption handbook had nothing to do with what we're talking about here.

Of course guilds had monopolies: on most servers there was one top guild in VP, ST, etc., and other guilds only gained access in subsequent expansions. On my server (Bristlebane) that guild was Club Fu.

But we're not talking about that, we're talking about camps, and those were not monopolized by guilds on live.

Originally Posted by karadin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That was more like taking an entire zone or large area for yourself. If you were camping a single mob and handing the camp off to guildmates, there was nothing wrong with that. It's how the game was always played.

The GM guidebook headline is literally "Contested Spawn Complaints" not "contested zone or large area complaints".

Originally Posted by karadin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you petitioned a GM because you thought you were entitled to a camp someone else was killing at and wanted to pass to a guildmate they would tell you to kick dirt.

Again, we have the single opinion of someone who's literally been playing a re-creation that's existed longer than the original ... and we have the actual (original) book used by the GMs.