Is Seal Team going to wake the sleeper?

[ClephNote]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Stop me if I'm wrong

Stop. You’re wrong. Again.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's the thing: you keep claiming I am misrepresenting you, but I don't think I am ... I think we just disagree. Stop me if I'm wrong: you believe that if the game/PnP allows you to do something, it can't be dickish. Correct?

Simple question: can you follow the server rules, and still be "contempable" (sic) person?

No. I have never claimed it is impossible for someone to be "dickish". That idea is the product of your oversimplification of my argument. Of course it is possible to be "dickish" or a "contempable" person while following the Rules/PnP, because:

A. No ruleset is perfect.
B. You can be clever about skirting the rules.
C. Dev's do not have time to settle every possible squabble.

However, the Rules/PnP exist because in most normal situations, if you follow them you will be playing in a way that is not "dickish". This "non-dickish" playstyle has been agreed upon by the Dev's and the community in general. That collective opinion of what is considered "non-dickish" has more weight than an individual's opinion, such as your own. You must also remember that the spectrum of possible human personalities and interactions is practically limitless. It is very easy to misinterpret a human's actions while that person is next to you. It is even easier to misinterpret an action within an MMO, where players are anonymous and we only talk through text. You SHOULD be giving most people the benefit of the doubt when they do something "dickish", or "contemptable", because you lack a LOT of context in most cases. It could very well be that you are interpreting their actions incorrectly.

Now that I have explained my opinion on the Rules/PnP and "dickish" people in a more detailed manner, let me tell you the reasons why Seal Team announcing they will kill Sleeper is NOT "dickish".

1. It follows the Rules/PnP, which is generally correct. This is a good starting point, because it is a collective opinion that has more weight than your individual opinion. However, you are correct that exceptions to the rule exist, so I will give you additional reasons.

2. The Sleeper mechanic is working as intended, as it was created in classic Everquest, which this server is trying to emulate. You may not LIKE this mechanic, but that doesn't mean Seal Team is "dickish" for wanting to use this mechanic. There are a lot of people on P99 that do not like the way Enchanter Charm works right now, for example. But that doesn't make you a "dick" for using Charm on an Enchanter in the way in which people don't like. At that point, you simply have a different opinion on how you think Charm should work, it is not like the Enchanter is purposely flaunting the Charm mechanic to make you angry or something.

3. All available evidence points to players inevitably wanting to wake the Sleeper. This evidence comes from live Everquest, where the Sleeper has been awoken on the majority of servers. Also, Sleeper has been awoken on Blue specifically, which means we have real data within our own emulator. It is not unreasonable to look at a greater than 50% chance of the Sleeper being awoken by another guild to make the decision to try and be the guild to do it. Seal Team is the #1 guild on Green right now, so they are literally the most equipped guild to do this. The biggest guild on the server announcing they will kill the Sleeper is one of the least surprising messages you could send on any Everquest server to be honest.

4. If the Dev's had a strong opinion on the Sleeper remaining asleep, they would do something about it. They would create new rules to prevent people from doing it, create a non-classic mechanic, etc. The Dev's have made it abundantly clear with their actions thus far that they are perfectly fine with a guild waking up the Sleeper. The Dev's opinions on this does matter quite a bit, because they are curating our experience the way they want. If they didn't want player's to experience a world without Warder Loot, they would do something.

[derpcake2]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No. I have never claimed it is impossible for someone to be "dickish". That idea is the product of your oversimplification of my argument. Of course it is possible to be "dickish" or a "contempable" person while following the Rules/PnP, because:

A. No ruleset is perfect.
B. You can be clever about skirting the rules.
C. Dev's do not have time to settle every possible squabble.

However, the Rules/PnP exist because in most normal situations, if you follow them you will be playing in a way that is not "dickish". This "non-dickish" playstyle has been agreed upon by the Dev's and the community in general. That collective opinion of what is considered "non-dickish" has more weight than an individual's opinion, such as your own. You must also remember that the spectrum of possible human personalities and interactions is practically limitless. It is very easy to misinterpret a human's actions while that person is next to you. It is even easier to misinterpret an action within an MMO, where players are anonymous and we only talk through text. You SHOULD be giving most people the benefit of the doubt when they do something "dickish", or "contemptable", because you lack a LOT of context in most cases. It could very well be that you are interpreting their actions incorrectly.

Now that I have explained my opinion on the Rules/PnP and "dickish" people in a more detailed manner, let me tell you the reasons why Seal Team announcing they will kill Sleeper is NOT "dickish".

1. It follows the Rules/PnP, which is generally correct. This is a good starting point, because it is a collective opinion that has more weight than your individual opinion. However, you are correct that exceptions to the rule exist, so I will give you additional reasons.

2. The Sleeper mechanic is working as intended, as it was created in classic Everquest, which this server is trying to emulate. You may not LIKE this mechanic, but that doesn't mean Seal Team is "dickish" for wanting to use this mechanic. There are a lot of people on P99 that do not like the way Enchanter Charm works right now, for example. But that doesn't make you a "dick" for using Charm on an Enchanter in the way in which people don't like. At that point, you simply have a different opinion on how you think Charm should work, it is not like the Enchanter is purposely flaunting the Charm mechanic to make you angry or something.

3. All available evidence points to players inevitably wanting to wake the Sleeper. This evidence comes from live Everquest, where the Sleeper has been awoken on the majority of servers. Also, Sleeper has been awoken on Blue specifically, which means we have real data within our own emulator. It is not unreasonable to look at a greater than 50% chance of the Sleeper being awoken by another guild to make the decision to try and be the guild to do it. Seal Team is the #1 guild on Green right now, so they are literally the most equipped guild to do this. The biggest guild on the server announcing they will kill the Sleeper is one of the least surprising messages you could send on any Everquest server to be honest.

4. If the Dev's had a strong opinion on the Sleeper remaining asleep, they would do something about it. They would create new rules to prevent people from doing it, create a non-classic mechanic, etc. The Dev's have made it abundantly clear with their actions thus far that they are perfectly fine with a guild waking up the Sleeper. The Dev's opinions on this does matter quite a bit, because they are curating our experience the way they want. If they didn't want player's to experience a world without Warder Loot, they would do something.

Stop getting trolled.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. It follows the Rules/PnP, which is generally correct. This is a good starting point, because it is a collective opinion that has more weight than your individual opinion. However, you are correct that exceptions to the rule exist, so I will give you additional reasons.

Great, let's see your "additional" reasons ...

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2. The Sleeper mechanic is working as intended, as it was created in classic Everquest, which this server is trying to emulate.

This isn't a new point: it's literally you just repeating the same flawed argument ("if the game let's me do it, I can't be a dick")

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3. All available evidence points to players inevitably wanting to wake the Sleeper.

What are you smoking? Were you here when Rampage woke the Sleeper? Everyone on the server hated them for it. (Which is the logical and natural consequence of being a dick and denying everyone else on the server experiences/items.)

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

4. If the Dev's had a strong opinion on the Sleeper remaining asleep, they would do something about it.

Again, just a repeat your flawed logic ("if the devs allow it, it can't be dickish behavior"). But (once again), you can be following the rules and playing the game without cheating ... and still be a dick!

You added nothing whatsoever to your argument (except acknowledging that you have no idea how unpopular the first Sleeper wakening was) with that massive wall of text.

[Fammaden]

Ogre confirmed best shaman.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ogre confirmed best shaman.

[wuanahto]

You can youtube the sleepers awakening. tons of vids about it from progression servers, blue videos and so on.
None of you care about the sleeper itself, you just want some loot before the next server.

Waking the sleeper, and having all the loot (minus primal weapons) deleted by the raid leader would be fitting, and eliminate all the hate related to it. And best of all, no one can complain about it without sounding greedy.

[Ripqozko]

Remember when loramin use to talk about raiding but never raided even with anon? pepperidge farms remembers

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Remember when loramin use to talk about raiding but never raided even with anon? pepperidge farms remembers

If these dickish raid guilds weren't blocking him he totally would though.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If these dickish raid guilds weren't blocking him he totally would though.

no no he wouldnt, there was free raids he could of attended with anon but instead farmed in wakening lands. he doesnt raid.