It's not ok to diagnose people and prOscribe medications.

[Mesocyclone]

I blame the ignorance of people for the bad future for the grandkids. Your main mistake was having kids. Really it was your only mistake.

[Mesocyclone]

No one cares about anyone but number one and their sexual organ. And memory cards.

[unsunghero]

Ok the guy in the second video is a well known high profile conservative, I recognized him immediately

He seems to be expressing (I believe, I just skimmed the vid) that psychiatric disorders are over-diagnosed in America and the world, and this is very likely true. I can explain why:

It’s easier to get a more accurate diagnosis with a psychiatrist that has worked with a person long enough to know their baseline level of functioning, behavior, and communication. For example, a person may have poor communication skills (kids are a good example of this), and feel they need to say an extreme thing to be heard or understood, or even to express how they feel. So a kid who is merely upset might express this as “I wish I were dead, I want to kill myself” to their doctor. Now a doctor just meeting that child might conclude this child is depressed and suicidal, and doesn’t realize that this particular kid says this any time they get upset. This is just an example to show the vulnerability of a questions-based assessment when you don’t know the person’s baseline behavior. Ideally, the person would eventually have a regular psychiatrist who would learn their behavior, or have that info coordinated by their case manager or counselor

We don’t yet have a way to test brain chemical levels with a scan, so we rely on the person answering questions. Do they have a personality to catastrophize things (make a mountain out of a molehill is the expression), and are not really depressed due to a chemical imbalance? Or they just poor at expressing how they feel with their words? Or are they lying on purpose for some other ulterior motive? These are the vulnerabilities of a question-based evaluation process

That’s the real reason for over-diagnosis, not some sinister plot

[starkind]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok the guy in the second video is a well known high profile conservative, I recognized him immediately

He seems to be expressing (I believe, I just skimmed the vid) that psychiatric disorders are over-prescribed in America and the world, and this is very likely true. I can explain why:

It’s easier to get a more accurate diagnosis with a psychiatrist that has worked with a person long enough to know their baseline level of functioning, behavior, and communication. For example, a person may have poor communication skills (kids are a good example of this), and feel they need to say an extreme thing to be heard or understood, or even to express how they feel. So a kid who is merely upset might express this as “I wish I were dead, I want to kill myself!” to their doctor. Now a doctor just meeting that child might conclude this child is depressed and suicidal, and doesn’t realize that this particular kid says this any time they get upset. This is just an example to show the vulnerability of a questions-based assessment when you don’t know the person’s baseline behavior. Ideally, the person would eventually have a regular psychiatrist who would learn their behavior, or have that info coordinated by their case manager or counselor

We don’t yet have a way to test brain chemical levels with a scan, so we rely on the person answering questions. Do they have a personality to catastrophize things (make a mountain out of a molehill is the expression), and are not really depressed due to a chemical imbalance? Or they just poor at expressing how they feel with their words? Or are they lying on purpose for some other ulterior motive? These are the vulnerabilities of a question-based evaluation process

That’s the real reason for over-diagnosis, not some sinister plot

Brain chemicals theory which is right up there with gender studies is the least empirical way of diagnosing people.

Most psychiatrists diagnose and proscribe after like a single 30 minute session.

The VA psyches where hard to keep on the phone longer than 15 minutes. Had this happen with several of them.

Ironically the ones that double dip in substance abuse are far better listeners.

The fucking asshole psych that assessed me after I was committed spent all of five minutes saying I was dumb and rolled his eyes when I said. "I didn't feel safe around person XYZ". Later I got to spend more time with an overworked and overwhelmed psych in like 5 minute increments.

None of the nurses had 5 minutes to observe and chart patients. They were just fishing for referrals and who they could Haldol. And who could get shipped out to prison or another facility.

Anyway that's because our society is falling and the best we can do is triage people to some degree. However because of the power dynamics, and regulations, and rules lawyering very few good people are left in the field. Most just have it in for "psychos", "bumbs", "vagrants". Evull transients! Tranny prostitutes! And some are there because they are straight up sadists and someone in the situation where they are abused, suicidal, become unhinged become easy and vulnerable victims. Especially when it can take months to have a fair day in court. If you don't even lose it completely because you're incarcerated and given medication that makes you hallucinate.

Ever take a high dose of even melatonin? Ya about half of people experience a really bad version of an acid trip. Do that to someone stressing. Someone with PTSD. Someone who just attempted suicide.. yeah.. it's game over.

[Mesocyclone]

Yea we're in the end of days. All seven seals were opened years ago.

How can you reach the new beginning without first reaching the end?

He that puts his heart on the world will be rewarded with earthly things.

He that puts his heart on the Lord will be rewarded with Heavenly things.

[Jibartik]

I thought it turned out that artificial intelligence was better at being a doctor than doctors?

Whatever happened to that did we just cover that shit up or what?

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I thought it turned out that artificial intelligence was better at being a doctor than doctors?

Whatever happened to that did we just cover that shit up or what?

A huge part of communication is non-verbal. For example, psychiatrists are looking at a person’s affect as well as the actual words they are speaking. I think it would be incredibly difficult to program an AI to understand human facial expressions/mannerisms, and whether these expressions and mannerisms are congruent or incongruent with their words

[starkind]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A huge part of communication is non-verbal. For example, psychiatrists are looking at a person’s affect as well as the actual words they are speaking. I think it would be incredibly difficult to program an AI to understand human facial expressions/mannerisms, and whether these expressions and mannerisms are congruent or incongruent with their words

So it's like forensic profiling, which isn't always accurate. That's a pretty bunk science.

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by starkind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So it's like forensic profiling, which isn't always accurate. That's a pretty bunk science.

I’ll give some examples. Kids often try to claim hearing voices or seeing things, but schizophrenia comes out almost always at the end of puberty, so around 18-20 for girls and a few years older than that for boys. A psychiatrist who hears an 11 year old claim to be hearing voices is obviously going to be extremely skeptical that this child has schizophrenia rather than maybe a trauma response or simply their imagination. And a big indicator of this other than their age is their facial expressions

But let’s say it’s an adult or a child saying this. Adults often confuse their own inner monologue with auditory hallucinations, so let’s assume an adult claims to be hearing voices saying they are no good and should kill themself. A good follow up question is to ask where these voices are coming from. For a schizophrenic person with auditory hallucinations, they will almost always claim it to be from an outside source, such as behind a wall, from the tv, from the vents, etc, rather than within their own head. To go back to facial expressions, someone experiencing psychosis without mania will often have a flat emotionless affect, or a very labile (all over the place) affect, or sometimes an affect incongruent to what they are saying. So if a doctor is evaluating a man who has already smiled when he shook the doctor’s hand, frowned when relating a negative thing, and said he hears a voice in his head telling him he is no good and should kill himself is not going to get a schizophrenia diagnosis. His affect is context-appropriate, he doesn’t display disorganized speech or thoughts, and he is claiming the voice is coming from his own head, meaning it is his own internal monologue

That’s an example of how facial expressions matter. They are a part of evaluation, never the entire evalustion

[starkind]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’ll give some examples. Kids often try to claim hearing voices or seeing things, but schizophrenia comes out almost always at the end of puberty, so around 18-20 for girls and a few years older than that for boys. A psychiatrist who hears an 11 year old claim to be hearing voices is obviously going to be extremely skeptical that this child has schizophrenia rather than maybe a trauma response or simply their imagination. And a big indicator of this other than their age is their facial expressions

But let’s say it’s an adult or a child saying this. Adults often confuse their own inner monologue with auditory hallucinations, so let’s assume an adult claims to be hearing voices saying they are no good and should kill themself. A good follow up question is to ask where these voices are coming from. For a schizophrenic person with auditory hallucinations, they will almost always claim it to be from an outside source, such as behind a wall, from the tv, from the vents, etc, rather than within their own head. To go back to facial expressions, someone experiencing psychosis without mania will often have a flat emotionless affect, or a very labile (all over the place) affect, or sometimes an affect incongruent to what they are saying. So if a doctor is evaluating a man who has already smiled when he shook the doctor’s hand, frowned when relating a negative thing, and said he hears a voice in his head telling him he is no good and should kill himself is not going to get a schizophrenia diagnosis. His affect is context-appropriate, he doesn’t display disorganized speech or thoughts, and he is claiming the voice is coming from his own head, meaning it is his own internal monologue

That’s an example of how facial expressions matter. They are a part of evaluation, never the entire evalustion

I agree there are genuine issues medications can help. They are certainly not safe magic pills and I believe most psychiatrists don't do their due diligence. Follow up. And patients often neglect alternatives expecting medications to do it for them.

We also have a major problem with the legal culture, lobbies, and pharmaceutical companies in the United States which create barriers to safe and effective treatment and tie the hands of dedicated psychiatrists willing to take some risk. All for the greater good.

Yet our society is failing. How many broken homes are because people aren't coping. They're looking for external solutions. They are taken advantage of because it's easy to pray on them.

Maybe mom's don't have to be single. Maybe kids don't need to have a completely flat affect at 8 years old. Or given medicine to induce one.

I'm pretty upset so I'm going to disengage.

You're not wrong. However the incidence of truly broken people is only on the rise. Once someone gets prescribed the kind of stuff I have been. It becomes incredibly hard to hold a job or stay healthy. The kinds of meds thrown at me where dangerous and did me incredible harm.