Smedy video demonstrates why TZVZ PvP was terrible

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by mimixownzall [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WTF kind of logic is that anyways? 2vs1 should win 95+% of the time anyways.

It's called Risk Vs Reward. A solo caster can walk around by himself on TZVZ all day long, run up on multiple people, spam off a couple dots or nukes and score a free, no skill kill. He doesn't have to chase anyone or joust or do shit. If they notice him and start running towards him, he can use shadowstep or levitate, run off, then come back and do it again 2 seconds later. If he gets rooted and has 5 people meleeing him, it doesn't even matter, he can channel gate right through it all and instantly disappear on TZVZ.

The caster has practically no risk for attacking people. If a melee tries to do this, he's going to end up dying in 2 seconds as someone chain casts CC spells on him while others kill him. Making it so tank survivability is that low while caster survivability is that high, is ass backwards from EQ live and it's a sham to even call that EQ PvP.

Warriors, monks, and rogues were perfectly viable solo PvP classes on EQ live, if you alter the game somehow to make them awful for that, we're obviously not playing Everquest anymore and are playing some random shitbox.

Originally Posted by mimixownzall [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I really don't want everyone and their mother rolling rangers/paladins while they spam root/snare on their way to victory like on Altergate.

This is exactly why I want this shit fixed so it's not a repeat of TZVZ or Altergate all over again. I don't want to be forced to choose a ranger, shadow knight, or paladin over a pure melee.

It would be completely impossible for me to lose a 1vs1 while playing a TZVZ paladin. Ranger is almost as good but a wiz could pull off a win with stun and no nuke resists. Why the fuck would I choose any other classes if I can play a hybrid and just automatically win every time? That's god awful balance. EQ live wasn't like that at all.

Originally Posted by Koota [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what you're again suggesting is removing the element from casters which allows them ANY and ALL chance at ever killing a melee 1v1, much less surviving the fight, right?

You sound like you never played EQ live PvP a single day in your life. Casters on EQ live cast levitate on themselves and ran around basically completely invulnerable to melee. If for some reason they didn't have levitate up, they just spam shadowstep and nukes. There was no "caster survivability" issue on EQ live unless you're fighting inside of a shoebox. Necros could also just straight up tank you and lifetap you to death, I hope your post was a joke.

[Koota]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For anyone wanting a skill based PvP system, the problem with that video is pretty obvious. There is just too little chance of either person on the side with two people dying, and too high of a chance for the other guy dying no matter what the skill level is of the people involved.

So what you're again suggesting is removing the element from casters which allows them ANY and ALL chance at ever killing a melee 1v1, much less surviving the fight, right? All the melee needs is MR past what was it you said, some dumb shit like 140? And boom, they are on your ass non-stop while their victim is generally in cloth or maybe leather. Having to roll the dice on channeling through generally long casting spells (Post 39, anyway), and subject to a slam or a bash.

See, because you're so hell bent with your fascination of absolving CC in EQ PvP, there is a drastic other side to this. At the risk of sounding like a "OMG SUPER KOOTER STALKER", get your stupid shit together and stop posting this same fucking issue 50 times, and come up with a compromise that isn't going to alter the classic "red p99" vibe that will more than likely be attached to it.

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why implement a system that discourages PvP? It obviously needs to be changed to give people some incentive to stick around.

Sounds like the classic system discourages YOU from PvP. There is already chances of say, upon DOT tick or damage inflicted per DD that the root/snare breaks. While I do agree that CCs shouldn't last for their entire in duration on players (Much like DD's shouldn't always do full damage to them), there shouldn't be a point where they are flat out totally resisted. Not even 95%, or even 90%.

This was back when I was playing on a PvP server before you were. And people were pretty encouraged to PvP, because melees knew how to pumice shit off of them properly by using vacant top buff slots, and stacked MR appropriately so that they weren't rooted/snared *AS* often, and even if it was, the duration wasn't crazy long, and there was always the looming chance of it being removed per a damage tick or DD blast inflicted.

[mimixownzall]

Originally Posted by Koota [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what you're again suggesting is removing the element from casters which allows them ANY and ALL chance at ever killing a melee 1v1, much less surviving the fight, right? All the melee needs is MR past what was it you said, some dumb shit like 140? And boom, they are on your ass non-stop while their victim is generally in cloth or maybe leather. Having to roll the dice on channeling through generally long casting spells (Post 39, anyway), and subject to a slam or a bash.

I know that sounds right when you put it out there, but guess what: it didn't happen that way on live. On SZ casters were on top even with CC spells being non-viable. The fact is that CC spells (mainly root/snare) hurt the caster more than anything. Their only hope is to run away and hope that the way EQ makes you teleport around and run in circles gives you time to get off some spells. Or, the caster just runs off and chooses to attack when it is more favorable to him.

See, because you're so hell bent with your fascination of absolving CC in EQ PvP, there is a drastic other side to this. At the risk of sounding like a "OMG SUPER KOOTER STALKER", get your stupid shit together and stop posting this same fucking issue 50 times, and come up with a compromise that isn't going to alter the classic "red p99" vibe that will more than likely be attached to it.

Guess what. "Classic" means root/snare/blind/mez will almost never land on someone with 130-ish MR (I can't remember the exact number, but I think it was around there).

. . .there shouldn't be a point where they are flat out totally resisted. Not even 95%, or even 90%.

Again, classic was at least 95% resisted with MR at a certain point.

This was back when I was playing on a PvP server before you were. And people were pretty encouraged to PvP, because melees knew how to pumice shit off of them properly by using vacant top buff slots, and stacked MR appropriately so that they weren't rooted/snared *AS* often, and even if it was, the duration wasn't crazy long, and there was always the looming chance of it being removed per a damage tick or DD blast inflicted.

Where did you have this vast pvp experience on live? I know they eventually changed the MR resist post PoP or more so clerics could actually land nukes on people but this was way later. I remember logging into the joint pvp server when all characters were xfered and going into sebilis. At the necrosis spawn a bard was talking with a necro and told the necro to cast his lifetap on him. The bard resisted all 5 or 6 of them. I think it was some time after this they further tweaked the resist system due to every piece of armor coming out having crazy ac/hps/mana/resists.

[Pudge]

i agree with koota

[mimixownzall]

Basically, melees ruled in dungeons, casters ruled outside. This comes down to swalling your ego/pride and running when you need to. Or roll with groups.

[Crenshinabon]

I played from classic till around GoD off and on.
I never had any of my MR shit get resisted as much as a few of you are saying, ever, on any character. 95%? That's a fkin joke man. As a druid it would sometimes take five or six cast to snare someone, but it would eventually land. As a cleric I remember running around getting blinds off all the time. As an enchanter I CLEARLY remember getting my MR debuffs to consistantly land almost always on anyone and those were all MR based. Yes tash helped but I can guarantee their MR was still high.

Saying that all MR shit was resisted 95% of the time is a lie. Root was MAYBE around 80% but if I chained it on anyone with any character I had it would EVENTUALLY land for a little bit of time.

If MR based spells were resisted 95% of the time I would not have played the game.
If MR based spells on any new server are resisted that much, I also will not play the game because it would be BROKEN.

This is all RZ experience.

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Crenshinabon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I played from classic till around GoD off and on.
I never had any of my MR shit get resisted as much as a few of you are saying, ever, on any character.

Because you were a noob fighting against other noobs. You also said you were on RZ where people are running around with empty slots or just plain naked.

There are links from people testing magic resist during Luclin on the safehouse and they say:

"150 MR gets you about 87% resistance to snares according to my last batch of tests."

It was even easier to resist those spells during Kunark and Velious before it was changed in Luclin.

[Jigga]

will you quit if you get rooted, snared, blind or mezzed?

[Crenshinabon]

Originally Posted by Jigga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

will you quit if you get rooted, snared, blind or mezzed?

I would not mind if it was around 70-80% of the time is when it would hit. This seems fair.

Also in response to guy above I had multiple max levels and was always fighting top end guilds. But you know what I didn't consider so much was the fact that people did not wear their best gear all the time as myself didn't want our best shit to get taken from us with lame gank.

Interesting.

Think red99 will be an item loot?

[Macken]

One can easily tell why no one ever heard of wormoct on live or VZTZ or any server for that matter.

The guy cannot play EQ. He has no clue what to do, how to do it.

Reading his posts is all you need to know, to know his skill level.

Root foils him.

I mean come on.