Change ZEMs for a MORE Classic experience!

[Clazxiss]

Originally Posted by galach [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nerf the hole by 75%? ok

Don't you even think about it! Please! This is a great zone to get that Dungeon Crawl feel that people should have in EQ. I'll ask you to disregard the "classic purists" and to direct them to Green when they want something close to original EQ.

When the Hole launched on live, it saw action for maybe a week, tops. Then it was forgotten, with the exception of people getting their epic pieces. I remind people that their monthly subscription bills paid for that content, why not use it?

Nope. "Classic purists" would rather go to Sebilis, where the zone was constantly camped by 50% or so. Fun fact, you were not dungeon crawling there. You would be zoning in to a place where you could walk from the entrance down to juggs because multiple group camps were keeping respawns dead. That's not an adventure.

I applaud the P99 staff for making ZEM changes to bring adventurers back to dead zones. Before my hiatus, I had friends joining me to explore and level in Xorb, Runnyeye, and Splitpaw! The Hole turned out to be one of the most entertaining zones for a crawl that EQ could offer. One of the biggest complaints in the MMORPG genre is that leveling feels like a structured theme park ride. I've found "classic purists" to be the worst offenders of this in the fact that even if ZEMs were left to their classic states, they'd still choose the zones with the best XP to level in. Coincidentally, those zones also happen to be places of solid loot, such as Sebilis, KC, and such. The classic experience these players want is the lazy inconvenience of having an XP/loot camp for the 16 hours they play while watching repeats of the Springer show.

[BlackBellamy]

Originally Posted by galach [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nerf the hole by 75%? ok

One month after Velious:

The Hole increased by 25%

Why don't we just have it at whatever it was before it was increased by 25% in January 2001?

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by Clazxiss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't you even think about it! Please! This is a great zone to get that Dungeon Crawl feel that people should have in EQ. I'll ask you to disregard the "classic purists" and to direct them to Green when they want something close to original EQ.

When the Hole launched on live, it saw action for maybe a week, tops. Then it was forgotten, with the exception of people getting their epic pieces. I remind people that their monthly subscription bills paid for that content, why not use it?

Nope. "Classic purists" would rather go to Sebilis, where the zone was constantly camped by 50% or so. Fun fact, you were not dungeon crawling there. You would be zoning in to a place where you could walk from the entrance down to juggs because multiple group camps were keeping respawns dead. That's not an adventure.

No one is crawling it on blue or green either, they are sitting in one spot pulling mobs for hours like any other xp group ever. On green at primetime you can often walk from the zone in all the way to the dock without aggro.

This isn't about classic ZEM, which may actually be accurate. Its about one zone being the only place anyone will consider for xp pick up groups, which is a non classic experience.

[Clazxiss]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one is crawling it on blue or green either, they are sitting in one spot pulling mobs for hours like any other xp group ever. On green at primetime you can often walk from the zone in all the way to the dock without aggro.

This isn't about classic ZEM, which may actually be accurate. Its about one zone being the only place anyone will consider for xp pick up groups, which is a non classic experience.

Your last paragraph is the core issue that has faced EQ since it's live launch. If the ZEM changes were removed from the Hole, people would just go monopolize the next best zone. I suppose that would be considered, classic?

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by Clazxiss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your last paragraph is the core issue that has faced EQ since it's live launch. If the ZEM changes were removed from the Hole, people would just go monopolize the next best zone. I suppose that would be considered, classic?

Well they would move from one zone to two zones most likely, KC and Seb. Which is more classic Kunark behavior than everyone who wants group xp piling into the Hole for ten levels. And those zones are actually on Kunark.

The Hole is a great zone but the new ZEM is simply overkill to me. It trivializes the leveling experience and turns all of the 50+ leveling grind into a single zone game. Yes there will always be a most popular place, but previously there was at least a little spread with enough people xping in KC, Chardok, Seb that you could reliably hope to get a pick up group in those places. Many people won't be 60 by the time we get Velious and I could have imagined Velks becoming a pick up group spot like in the old days but not now with the Hole becoming the only place to level.

[Man0warr]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well they would move from one zone to two zones most likely, KC and Seb. Which is more classic Kunark behavior than everyone who wants group xp piling into the Hole for ten levels. And those zones are actually on Kunark.

The Hole is a great zone but the new ZEM is simply overkill to me. It trivializes the leveling experience and turns all of the 50+ leveling grind into a single zone game. Yes there will always be a most popular place, but previously there was at least a little spread with enough people xping in KC, Chardok, Seb that you could reliably hope to get a pick up group in those places. Many people won't be 60 by the time we get Velious and I could have imagined Velks becoming a pick up group spot like in the old days but not now with the Hole becoming the only place to level.

I don't see the issue with that though. The biggest reason Seb and HS aren't seeing more play is the soulbind keys. KC and Seb have also always sucked for actually leveling - their ZEMs have always sucked like Lower Guk and Sol B - they are loot zones.

Why is it so bad for the Hole to be the best exp? It has mostly bad loot drops but it's fantastic for exp because you can fit 10-12 groups in there without people stepping on each other's toes. If you nerf the Hole people will just go back to the next easiest non-Kunark option like Perma, Neriak Arena, etc. People will always gravitate towards the best combination of ZEM and Loot, no matter what you change them to.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well they would move from one zone to two zones most likely, KC and Seb. Which is more classic Kunark behavior than everyone who wants group xp piling into the Hole for ten levels. And those zones are actually on Kunark.

The Hole is a great zone but the new ZEM is simply overkill to me. It trivializes the leveling experience and turns all of the 50+ leveling grind into a single zone game. Yes there will always be a most popular place, but previously there was at least a little spread with enough people xping in KC, Chardok, Seb that you could reliably hope to get a pick up group in those places. Many people won't be 60 by the time we get Velious and I could have imagined Velks becoming a pick up group spot like in the old days but not now with the Hole becoming the only place to level.

It's gonna be horseshit when they nerf it now, after the neckbeards have all leveled their main and alts to 60 in the hole.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Clazxiss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your last paragraph is the core issue that has faced EQ since it's live launch. If the ZEM changes were removed from the Hole, people would just go monopolize the next best zone. I suppose that would be considered, classic?

This is the beauty of "dark" ZEM changes, ie. ZEM changes made without informing the player base. Such changes might actually be 100% classic (if they were, we players wouldn't have known, right?) Actually, with Show EQ, maybe we would have ... but even if Verant wasn't periodically/secretly changing ZEMs without telling us ... that certainly seems like a very Verant thing to do.

The best solution in my mind is for staff to say "we're going to change ZEMs, secretly and periodically", and then say nothing more. Hell, they could even say that and not actually do it! I can all but guarantee that simply saying it would be enough that, after every patch, we'd have multiple threads to the effect of "does it feel like the Hole's XP is lower post-patch?" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Players hunting the mythical "best XP zone" (again, even if the staff never actually made one) would drive adoption of alternate dungeons ... or at least would do so more than the current system.

[Sizar]

Can we just change the zem's to 85-100 across the board and call it a day? Simple, easy

[Grakken]

Clearly, the answer is to make zones have variable ZEM inversely proportional to the population of people in the zone.