Race and Class counts last night

[Trazic]

People often talk about wizards being terrible in exp groups but rarely talk numbers so I decided to do some math.

A 60 wizard with clarity II will regen 33 mana per tick while meditating. Suntrike costs 450 mana reduced down to roughly 400 through specialization. That means they can cast sunstrike approximately once every 72 seconds. 1615 / 72 = 22.4 dps in a chain pulling group in the best case scenario (absolutely no resists).

That does indeed seem rather underwhelming.

[Gustoo]

Originally Posted by Trazic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People often talk about wizards being terrible in exp groups but rarely talk numbers so I decided to do some math.

A 60 wizard with clarity II will regen 33 mana per tick while meditating. Suntrike costs 450 mana reduced down to roughly 400 through specialization. That means they can cast sunstrike approximately once every 72 seconds. 1615 / 72 = 22.4 dps in a chain pulling group in the best case scenario (absolutely no resists).

That does indeed seem rather underwhelming.

I think a wizard needs to do that DPS (keeping full mana but nuking once ever 72 seconds)

And keep evac medded

And keep root medded

Can they cast damage shields on other casters? That too.

Not the best DPS but golley gee on P99 the 6th player in a group is free so might as well fill up.

[annali]

Originally Posted by Trazic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People often talk about wizards being terrible in exp groups but rarely talk numbers so I decided to do some math.

A 60 wizard with clarity II will regen 33 mana per tick while meditating. Suntrike costs 450 mana reduced down to roughly 400 through specialization. That means they can cast sunstrike approximately once every 72 seconds. 1615 / 72 = 22.4 dps in a chain pulling group in the best case scenario (absolutely no resists).

That does indeed seem rather underwhelming.

Yup, and when people say "ah but wizard's bring utility in stunning those casters" yep...but then our DPS is even lower.

Wizards were garbage until Planes of Power.

I created a wizard on P99 simply because I forgot we can't crit in this era and I'd invested too much time before I realised this fact :P

[Exard3k]

Originally Posted by Trazic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That does indeed seem rather underwhelming.

Indeed. But it's your maths that is underwhelming. Because your calculation isn't based on real circumstances and doesn't even compare that value to other values. You can't say "underwhelming" with only one set of data, you need a reference to compare it to.

[NPC]

Originally Posted by Exard3k [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Indeed. But it's your maths that is underwhelming. Because your calculation isn't based on real circumstances and doesn't even compare that value to other values. You can't say "underwhelming" with only one set of data, you need a reference to compare it to.

Parse a high level rogue vs a wizard. Tell me who wins, rogues that backstab for 300-400 without any costs or the wizard spitting 1600 every 72 seconds, it doesn't take a genius. Just in denial.
And not the 2 min it takes for wizards to empty their mana bar, this is about sustain DPS. Completely different story, 30min, 45min, 2 hours.

[Exard3k]

Originally Posted by NPC [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Parse a high level rogue vs a wizard. Tell me who wins, rogues that backstab for 300-400 without any costs or the wizard spitting 1600 every 72 seconds, it doesn't take a genius. Just in denial.

400dmg with 10sec cooldown = 40 DPS
1615dmg with 7 sec casting = 230 DPS


Of course it's not that easy, but accurate if mob lives <10sec and/or avg pull duration is >=72sec.

So now we're talking about circumstances. And this differs widely. For comparison we need more variables like mob lifetime, pull duration, pull variety, group breaks, mob type, etc. not even talking about quality of dmg.

Things are not that simple.

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by Exard3k [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

400dmg with 10sec cooldown = 40 DPS
1615dmg with 7 sec casting = 230 DPS

Your point on the bursty-ness of wizard damage is well taken, but Backstab is affected by haste.

[NPC]

Originally Posted by Exard3k [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

400dmg with 10sec cooldown = 40 DPS
1615dmg with 7 sec casting = 230 DPS


Of course it's not that easy, but accurate if mob lives <10sec and/or avg pull duration is >=72sec.

So now we're talking about circumstances. And this differs widely. For comparison we need more variables like mob lifetime, pull duration, pull variety, group breaks, mob type, etc. not even talking about quality of dmg.

Things are not that simple.

If you take into account only medding, that 1615dmg is 72 seconds with maximum mana regen clarity II.
So rogue potential is 7 x 400 = 2800 dmg just from backstabs alone, and in the same amount of time for wizard to med enough to do 1615dmg.
That doesn't include fiz or resist or agro mitigation. Not sure about rogue skill cool down/overlaps for backstab an evade.

1615dmg with 7 sec casting + 72 sec medding time = 22 DPS
The problem with wizards, and only wizards, is they have no way to contribute to melee damage, every other class can significantly buff to assist melee damage, and/or use a pet, or do melee damage themselves.
Melee damage is only a CH away from infinite damage. That why only wizards need buffed.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Exard3k [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

400dmg with 10sec cooldown = 40 DPS
1615dmg with 7 sec casting = 230 DPS


Of course it's not that easy, but accurate if mob lives <10sec and/or avg pull duration is >=72sec.

So now we're talking about circumstances. And this differs widely. For comparison we need more variables like mob lifetime, pull duration, pull variety, group breaks, mob type, etc. not even talking about quality of dmg.

Things are not that simple.

Yeah you’re right it’s not this easy. Because you’re not adding in the constant damage a Rogue is doing over the course of the kill, and you’re not dividing the Wizard’s damage by the zero damage they are doing for the rest of the kill.

It also ignores the many kills a wizard won’t even do any damage on at all because they’re sitting there medding through

[turbosilk]

Originally Posted by NPC [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Parse a high level rogue vs a wizard. Tell me who wins, rogues that backstab for 300-400 without any costs or the wizard spitting 1600 every 72 seconds, it doesn't take a genius. Just in denial.
And not the 2 min it takes for wizards to empty their mana bar, this is about sustain DPS. Completely different story, 30min, 45min, 2 hours.

Again wiz are king of raid boss dps until Velious.