Enchanter is broken and overpowered on P99

[matticas]

Originally Posted by Tethler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just move the clarity spell line from enchanter to wizard. Things will work themselves out.

this

[azxten]

Additional testing of push modification of X/Y coord reveals some interesting things based on terrain geometry. It is possible to create optimal angles between yourself and the pushing mob in relation to the X/Y grid that can minimize the amount of push even eliminating it entirely in one of the two axes.

Who would have thought that your position in relation to the mob and the X/Y grid can add or remove multiple percentage points of channeling chance?

[cd288]

Did you really just do all this testing but offer zero evidence that’s things were different during classic? Lol

Like yeah, cool you gathered some data for yourself. But that data just proves that X is X currently...not that X was actually Y 20 years ago

[azxten]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did you really just do all this testing but offer zero evidence that’s things were different during classic? Lol

Like yeah, cool you gathered some data for yourself. But that data just proves that X is X currently...not that X was actually Y 20 years ago

Calm down buddy.

So with further testing I can say that video lag results in more player push. Given the code that EQEmu uses this would result in significantly higher interrupt chance.

Talking a change from 2% chance reduction if you get hit once to 200% chance reduction if you get hit once and a change in moving X/Y axis from .02 to .2.

My new theory is that in EQ live players experienced video lag and lower performance and the EQ client actually moves your player model more if it is lagging when you get hit.

You can test this by taking a /loc before and after being hit and then do the same when alt tabbed to induce some video processing delay (on most systems).

Thus the final conclusion is that similar to Bard AE kiting getting nerfed channeling chance should be about 10x less likely on P99 due to the types of computers people played on back in 1999.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Calm down buddy.

So with further testing I can say that video lag results in more player push. Given the code that EQEmu uses this would result in significantly higher interrupt chance.

Talking a change from 2% chance reduction if you get hit once to 200% chance reduction if you get hit once and a change in moving X/Y axis from .02 to .2.

My new theory is that in EQ live players experienced video lag and lower performance and the EQ client actually moves your player model more if it is lagging when you get hit.

You can test this by taking a /loc before and after being hit and then do the same when alt tabbed to induce some video processing delay (on most systems).

Thus the final conclusion is that similar to Bard AE kiting getting nerfed channeling chance should be about 10x less likely on P99 due to the types of computers people played on back in 1999.

Okay so just to recap here, you're doing a lot of "testing" and writing lengthy summaries of it in this thread without providing any evidence of what things were like in 1999? Okay got it.

I think we can move this to resolved. Or go post this and your "theory" in the bug reports forum and you'll get responded to with a request for real evidence of what things were like in 1999 and THEN you can move it to resolved.

[azxten]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okay so just to recap here, you're doing a lot of "testing" and writing lengthy summaries of it in this thread without providing any evidence of what things were like in 1999? Okay got it.

I think we can move this to resolved. Or go post this and your "theory" in the bug reports forum and you'll get responded to with a request for real evidence of what things were like in 1999 and THEN you can move it to resolved.

Lower system performance is a known fact and was referenced by the devs in nerfing AE spells.

I showed that lower video performance increases push amount per hit from mobs which directly relates to channeling.

Why are you so against making things classic?

[DMN]

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lower system performance is a known fact and was referenced by the devs in nerfing AE spells.

I showed that lower video performance increases push amount per hit from mobs which directly relates to channeling.

Why are you so against making things classic?

It's an interesting subject, though as I told you it will simply make enchanters more powerful instead of less relative to other classes because other classes don't have 1.0 second casting stun spell.

It also wouldnt surpise me its true and it reminds me of the fall sensitivty of people with poor connections to the server,especially after kunark was released and you had tons of cliffs/hills to navigatepeople with bad connectiosn would get murdered on those hills.

The problem here is you are alleging poor performance was the issue, and hence would fall in the same category of all the other thigns that shouldnt be going on like brds swarm kitting dozens of mobs which no one could do due to server instablity but we have a stable server here now so we have to deal with it.

[ScottBerta]

I feel enchanters are over powered as well.. could have been made into two classes. One class specializing in charm/Stun/slow.. the other specializing in melee buffs/mana regen and CC.

I do like the comment made about moving clarity to Wizard. That would even things out a lot and force enchanters to use their mana tap spells more often. Wizard with clarity capability would put it on a more even playing field with other int casters especially enc and necro. For wiz even if it was like a short duration self only mana regen spell would be fine. Help to alleviate the long med breaks.

[azxten]

As an example here is my X/Y coords before/after being hit once with no video lag compared to alt tabbing to simulate P99 video lag.

No video lag:

1.76, -2215.70
1.78, -2215.74

No lag delta:

.02, .04

Video lag:

1.87, -2215.87
2.02, -2216.11

Lag delta:

.15, .24

Basically a 5-10x increase in push distance from a single mob attack with some video processing lag. I'm fairly sure this is a big part of why channeling failed more often in classic as I imagine the client still resulted in more push if you had video processing lag which would have been common back then when EQ was a new game. More movement from mob attacks resulted in higher failure rates as we've always known channeling was more or less successful depending on the delta of your movement at start and end of casting.

This makes all casters easier than they were in classic but also makes charming significantly easier as casting the Enchanter AE stun, charm, mez, etc would be difficult with such exaggerated pushback.

In short, P99 Enchanter charm is similarly broken to Bard AE kiting with the reasoning that it was not technically capable to so easily cast through melee back then on the systems we had. I rest my case. Possible but risk was significantly higher same as Bard AE kiting.

[Tist]

What about necro, mage, even bard?

Enchanter pets are not strong at all past like level 20. They get owned by blues and have no regen and the enchanter does not have heal pet. Charm is also not reliable, at least for me until later levels and more charisma. On green I was getting charm breaks under 30 seconds OFTEN while leveling. They just started holding reliably after 200 + Charisma and even then it is RNG.

Mesmerized mobs retain their low health if you are still in their vicinity. If you outrange them or reduce vision with sooth then mez will start recovering their hp.