Let's talk CLASS BALANCE

[Extunarian]

Also, as far as mages getting screwed, I was just in a group with 4 mages, a druid and myself and we basically walked through chardok. The druid and I pretended to do stuff, but we really weren't.

[Dynaguy]

Lack of class balance is one of the biggest charms of this classic server. I like to feel special in the role I've chosen, knowing that I can do things that other classes just can't do, or can't do as effectively.

Look at WoW, where everyone gets their panties in a bunch when a patch has nerfed the shaman to heal for 1% less HPS than a druid, or a rogue does 1% less DPS than a hunter. It's a nightmare for every game designer to make every DPS spec do exactly the same DPS, and every heal spec heals the same HPS. And what have they gained? A bunch of generic classes that can basically all do the same, just with a different name.

Balance is boring.

[Messianic]

This is actually a pretty decent discussion, all things considered. It's relatively moot to how p99 is going to progress, but definitely neat.

I hadn't done parsing, but I always suspected wizard damage in a group was incredibly minuscule compared to sustained melee dps from a rogue or even a ranger. I enjoy the class, but pretty much all we're super-efficient at is AoE and raid burst damage.

To me, i'm completely unconcerned about class "Balance" if we mean balance in the sense that WoW has created. I want some classes to be helpless without other classes. I want some classes that are overpowered soloists. I want the variety. I like super-specialized classes (like wizards) with a completely unique flavor.

[Malrubius]

Originally Posted by Dynaguy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lack of class balance is one of the biggest charms of this classic server. I like to feel special in the role I've chosen, knowing that I can do things that other classes just can't do, or can't do as effectively.

Look at WoW, where everyone gets their panties in a bunch when a patch has nerfed the shaman to heal for 1% less HPS than a druid, or a rogue does 1% less DPS than a hunter. It's a nightmare for every game designer to make every DPS spec do exactly the same DPS, and every heal spec heals the same HPS. And what have they gained? A bunch of generic classes that can basically all do the same, just with a different name.

Balance is boring.

This. I've used the term "balanced to death" to describe other MMORPGs out there.

Once you've completely balanced everything you might as well be playing a word processor.

Indeed, balance is borning.

[Extunarian]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I hadn't done parsing, but I always suspected wizard damage in a group was incredibly minuscule compared to sustained melee dps from a rogue or even a ranger. I enjoy the class, but pretty much all we're super-efficient at is AoE and raid burst damage..

This should be true...but then who else is going to burn down that bad pull and save the raid or group from a wipe? Not the monk or rogue! The burst dps + evac is a nice insurance policy for any group deep in a dungeon.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by mwatt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow. A lot of work to come up with suggestions that simply will not be implemented. This server is intended to provide the classic EQ experience, with both its beauty and its warts.

Part of the enjoyment being here is in reviewing what has happened over the past 12 years and what we can learn from it. I don't think anybody wants to change p1999. I want it to stay the way it's because I like it that way. But I like the freedom to discuss things and be critical of this game just for academic reasons.

[Deathrydar]

I am one of those people that say, to hell with balance! EverQuest was created with one thing in mind: A huge variety of possibilites! Those possiblities are only a reality if you broaden your horizons, and to achieve that, you have to stray away from the "staus quo", for a lack of a better word.

I, for one, love the fact that there are classes like Wizards that are OP with damage over other classes and there are classes that are CONSIDERED weak, like the Ranger. This seperates the men from the boys because if you can play a Ranger well, then you rock! If you can't play a Wizard well, then you may be border-line retarded.

To me, choosing a race and class is like choosing the difficulty level in a regular video game. You want easy mode? Play a Halfling Druid. You want a hard experience? Play a Human Rogue. You want a difficult experience? Play an Iksar Shadow Knight.

No other game (Except VanfailGuard) has the vast race and class selection that EverQuest has. Do you know why? Well, probably because it wouldn't be possible to balance all of these races and classes even if you tried.

Bottom line: EverQuest allows you to select your own difficulty level. And in an MMO, it doesn't exist anywhere else!

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Extunarian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This should be true...but then who else is going to burn down that bad pull and save the raid or group from a wipe? Not the monk or rogue! The burst dps + evac is a nice insurance policy for any group deep in a dungeon.

True, but it's just as valid to say that the sustained DPS over the course of the group might have prevented the need for burst dps or evac anyhow... [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[NickN8N]

Druid and Magician are the easiest classes in the game to level, there has to be a penalty of some sort for having it so easy.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Dynaguy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lack of class balance is one of the biggest charms of this classic server. I like to feel special in the role I've chosen, knowing that I can do things that other classes just can't do, or can't do as effectively.

Look at WoW, where everyone gets their panties in a bunch when a patch has nerfed the shaman to heal for 1% less HPS than a druid, or a rogue does 1% less DPS than a hunter. It's a nightmare for every game designer to make every DPS spec do exactly the same DPS, and every heal spec heals the same HPS. And what have they gained? A bunch of generic classes that can basically all do the same, just with a different name.

Balance is boring.

Most players like to have some flexibility. I still believe my having picked a ranger as my first class in 1999 was the reason I enjoyed everquest. Another reason is I never achieved a high level so never got to experience hell levels or long corpse runs. But anyway, I think that most players want to be able to do a little bit of everything, they just don't know it yet. There might be a few players who like to specialize, but the problem is that once you've done it your only alternative is to reroll. I think that a better solution would be to have a more flexible and changeable class system. Perhaps even a skill-based system. We have to admit these many yeasr later that maybe people just don't enjoy playing a group-dependent character that's stripped of diversity.

Where's the interest in a class that always does the same thing?

Being flexible just means having choices. More things to do means not getting bored.