Cleric races. So many good choices

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by iAmAbsurd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do the clickable items for humans both snare and fear, retain their functionality throughout the game? Will velious mobs lose the effect of snare or fear more quickly or be less effective in general because of the level of the spell the items are actually casting? Are those items useful that late into the game?

The snare necklace is most useful when you're duoing with a Mage, Enchanter or melee class, which is a not-infrequent proposition as a Cleric. It's nice because with snare not only do you stop mobs from fleeing, but you get free damage on the last 20% of their health, which ends up saving you mana on heals. It remains useful even at 60. The level of the spell itself does not reduce its effectiveness in that regard, only the magic resistance of the mob you cast it on (as well as the level differential between you and the mob). Some people poo-poo the snare neck because it has a 6 second cast, but 6 seconds is not that long in EQ, and it's well-worth casting in many situations. Plus it's simply a spell you will never otherwise have access to as a Cleric. It's a very good item and along with the other Human advantages (high CHA, high STR, good WIS, Infravision/See Invis helm, able to wear robes) makes Inny Human probably the strongest choice overall.

[Jimjam]

I found the necklace useful to snare+fear spectres while nukespamming them.

[Tuljin]

The Inny snare neck is an incredibly valuable item. You rarely group with someone who can snare and the road from 51-60 is a very long one. The long cast time is something you can easily account for considering that clerics generally don't do much besides sit and heal anyways. People who poo-poo it never had one.

The final 20% of a mobs health damage-free does indeed save lots of mana over time, however with the Inny snare neck the mob doesn't entirely stop until 15% health and flees very slowly from 20-15. The duration isn't horribly long either so you need to anticipate that and make sure the snare lands as close as possible to 20%.

The main reason the max CHA roll came about is from min/maxers on Blue that could sit in a ~rAiD~ guild and with 3.5 years of Kunark before 5 years of Velious they would be guaranteed the gear to go over hardcap on WIS at some point in their toons life. This is also where the Dwarf roll with full stamina comes from, especially if you knew you were never going to group and just going to ~rAiD~, never needing charisma at all. Going over softcap is far less than ideal but going over hardcap on a stat you put points into at roll means completely wasted points. There was so much silly gear on Blue that you could have 85 base WIS and still go over hardcap.

The reality is is that on Green there are way too many mouths to feed and the timeline is very short. There will be a small handful of uber dragon gear on Green compared to 8 years of VP farming and 5 years of NToV farming on Blue. DKP won't be getting you a Crown of Rile, a loot council will.

So really your points at roll on a Human really all depend on your "playstyle," how comfortable you are running low WIS, and whether or not you plan on trying to get top ~rAiD~ loot. If you are serious about catching your med ticks and not being in sloppy groups you don't need a deep mana pool. I have successfully duoed some of the toughest mobs in old world that can't really be feasibly soloed with a laughably low WIS total. I also pull the mobs. For these encounters you absolutely need to maximize your AC HP and resists by wearing as much plate as you can. AC is a very powerful stat on this box and its actually very important, even for ~a cLeRiC~. The high base strength of a Human cleric makes this possible and really is one of the main benefits.

The issue with old world cleric gear is that there really isn't any plate that gives you both WIS and AC/HP, which changes with your planar gear and Kunark. My guildies and friends know I have the absolute lowest wisdom of anybody and they don't pick someone with "more WIS" over me lol. If you know you will be duoing a lot with a shaman you will definitely be calming and you will need lots of CHA points. If you try to go for WIS in Old World you will be a paper cleric in a hodgepodge of odd gear and you'll greatly sacrifice HP AC and resists, which goes completely against "clerics" in fantasy-themed games which....wear plate.

Because I like "statty" toons, I knew I would be playing duo with my brother's shaman a lot, and I knew I wouldn't ever be getting top dragon loot I went 15 WIS and 15 CHA at roll. That means I am 10 points under max for both WIS and CHA. I beat myself up for a while for not tanking the extra 10 CHA but these days I really don't. If I knew I'd be getting ~rAiD~ loot I would definitely crank full CHA. I certainly don't miss the extra 10 possible wisdom I don't have.

If you are on Red you die when you run out of mana, so that would definitely change things. This isn't Red though. Its a PvE box where most people who roll Cleric want to find the best gambit/scam to get to max level and get the absolute best gear possible by sitting around collecting DKP in whatever way possible. Even the difference in type of player on P99 has changed from 10 years ago at the launch of the project compared to now. The type of "gamer" on Green is vastly different from the Gen-X stoner that played EQ at launch 20 years ago who was attracted to anything fantasy-themed with long hair and Frank Frazetta artwork on their walls.

If you know you are going to be shooting for the "best" gear, full CHA at roll is the absolute min/max, even if you "won't be grouping." You'll hit hardcap with cleric ~rAiD~ gear in later expansions even with 85 base WIS. To answer iAmAbsurd's question if he will be "suffering tremendously until i am able to get to the real end game and get my wisdom higher" if you were to roll max CHA, the answer is no. You in fact wouldn't suffer at all.

If you roll max WIS at roll you won't "suffer" either, however you also won't be any "better" as a cleric. Being "better" comes from not wasting mana, catching med ticks, and being good at EQ. You will, however, end up over softcap and eventually over hardcap with wasted points from roll. That's also totally fine because when you're at that point on this box you're doing nothing but parking your toon and waiting for batphones anyways. Wasted stat points from roll just completely goes against the mix/max "competitive" mentality of the players on P99 at this point. That's really what this whole WIS/CHA discussion is all about.

[Lampolo]

I like to raid naked

[Gustoo]

If you aren't going to full blown raid like a mad dog and MAX your stats, do wisdom

If you ARE going to full blown raid like a mad dog and MAX your stats, do Charisma, then STR or AGI because stamina will hit the 255 when you're JACKED on best gear.

REgarding Robe you will probably use https://wiki.project1999.com/Akkirus...e_of_the_Risen because you're gunna wanna click that mark of karn all the time? maybe? Free heals I dunno. Might generate too much aggro I've never had one.

But robe of azure sky you need to be insane to get to loot because its BIS for so many people and obvious status symbol.

So i dunno. I'd prolly roll a halflin.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No you should not pump Charisma, and yes you will be noticeably suffering from the low WIS if you do. +CHA gear is cheap and easily acquired, +WIS gear is more expensive and harder to come by. And every point of +WIS you get from stats means more slots you can instead devote to +Mana, +HP or +Resists, all of which you will benefit more from on a regular basis than CHA. For an easy example, consider that a low WIS Cleric will probably be forced to wear +WIS jewelry, while the high WIS Cleric can fill those slots with +HP jewelry and become much more sturdy.

This is not to say CHA is useless for a Cleric. It's worth having some +CHA gear. But unless you are regularly breaking camps solo or trying to cast lull on mobs near your own level, you won't benefit much from high CHA. Realistically you won't be pulling or breaking camps much as a grouping Cleric, and if you do you will probably only cast the spell once to initially break the camp. And you will likely be casting on low blue con XP mobs with a low resist rate.

Again, there very, very few good charisma items that provide additional stats a cleric will want, and any cleric will eventually easily hit the soft cap at 200 wisdom regardless of starting stats by using plate-based items that will boost other important stats like HP/AC/resists.

You do yourself a disservice by not adding cha to your cleric unless you intend to purely use the character as raid cleric( lots of options but might as well go high elf to minmax wis/mana) or a rez-bot(make a halfling).

[Vexenu]

You don't wear dedicated +CHA gear all the time, you wear it to break camps or when otherwise casting a Lull where a crit fail will probably get you killed. Those are very limited scenarios in terms of overall playtime for most Clerics.

And it's really not that easy to hit 200 WIS in Classic and Kunark gear (obviously with Velious raid gear it doesn't matter anymore). You're basically forced to prioritize +WIS in every slot to do it, so you miss out on a lot of good +Mana and +HP items to do so (i.e. you probably can't afford to use a Sarnak Battle Shield and HP jewelry, which boost your survivability substantially).

Very few groups have wiped in EQ because the Cleric's CHA was too low. On the other hand, it's the most common thing in the world for a group or raid to wipe because Clerics ran out of mana, or because the Cleric pulled agro and died.

Prioritizing CHA over WIS on a Cleric is not wrong for everyone. But it is wrong for the vast majority of players. It's literally the exact same as people who say you should prioritize STA over INT on INT casters. It's technically correct in the very long run perspective, but really only pays dividends once you obtain extremely high-end gear. You'll be gimped 1-60 and until late Velious. This applies doubly on Green where gearing will be much more competitive.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don't wear dedicated +CHA gear all the time, you wear it to break camps or when otherwise casting a Lull where a crit fail will probably get you killed. Those are very limited scenarios in terms of overall playtime for most Clerics.

So you want to take off all your good wis/ac/hp/resist gear at the riskiest time possible. Sounds like a great idea.

Then we get into the fact that clerics main way to get around most area is going to be lulling stuff so they can pass without aggro, or the fact that you will invariably be doing CRs naked.

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And it's really not that easy to hit 200 WIS in Classic and Kunark gear (obviously with Velious raid gear it doesn't matter anymore). You're basically forced to prioritize +WIS in every slot to do it, so you miss out on a lot of good +Mana and +HP items to do so (i.e. you probably can't afford to use a Sarnak Battle Shield and HP jewelry, which boost your survivability substantially).

Nope. You just equip the best shit you can equip for whatever it is you are doing. You pretty much never need 200 wis anyway except for maybe a raid cleric.

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Very few groups have wiped in EQ because the Cleric's CHA was too low. On the other hand, it's the most common thing in the world for a group or raid to wipe because Clerics ran out of mana, or because the Cleric pulled agro and died.

The actual raid mana of clerics will hardly differ regardless of starting stats. They all hit 200 wisdom, and +mana items usually aren't nearly as effective as pure wisdom items prior to the cap. At most, you end up with something like 100 more mana to play with versus same race cleric.

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Prioritizing CHA over WIS on a Cleric is not wrong for everyone. But it is wrong for the vast majority of players. It's literally the exact same as people who say you should prioritize STA over INT on INT casters. It's technically correct in the very long run perspective, but really only pays dividends once you obtain extremely high-end gear. You'll be gimped 1-60 and until late Velious. This applies doubly on Green where gearing will be much more competitive.

i already addressed this. if you want to be a pure raid bot, that's fine. Realistically, no raid guild gives a flying fuck what you put your starting points in as long as you will raid with your cleric. But you might give a fuck when your charisma is shit and it reduces your effectiveness at doing an non raid content<-- and this will be the case for most players, even players who are in raiding guilds.

[unleashedd]

consider this: lull is the only spell you can cast on a target without LOS as a pulling mechanism (if critical resist). CHA gear is easy to get for successful lulls, but bottomed out CHA isnt as easy to get... halfling!

[Gustoo]

OOO i like the reverse critical resist negative charisma.

Does lull critical resist still single pull though?

It SHOULDNT (i dont think) but it might here.