/list

[loramin]

Originally Posted by baakss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the case of the Manastone/Jboots/Guise camp, the toxicity would be horrendous. List may seem bad, but it would be worse otherwise because of the lengths we'll go to get our way.

This makes it sound like lists are some custom thing introduced to "make classic" less bad ... but they're not. Lists were 100% classic, and are not just some wacky custom mechanic Rogean dreamed up.

The specific /list command itself isn't classic, but it's just an automation of what happened on live (ie. what was enforced by paid human GMs/guides).

So please let's not frame things as "classic vs. lists". It's "impossible-to-recreate (because we don't have paid staff) live sytem vs. /list ... vs. something else far less classic".

[baakss]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This makes it sound like lists are some custom thing introduced to "make classic" less bad ... but they're not. Lists were 100% classic, and are not just some wacky custom mechanic Rogean dreamed up.

The specific /list command itself isn't classic, but it's just an automation of what happened on live (ie. what was enforced by paid human GMs/guides).

So please let's not frame things as "classic vs. lists". It's "impossible-to-recreate (because we don't have paid staff) live sytem vs. /list ... vs. something else far less classic".

The implementation of list here is not what happened on live.

There was certainly not a requirement that you leave a camp because a non-lore item dropped that you wanted. You could continue to accrue as many of them as you wanted, as long as you held the camp. A GM wasn't going to kick you out because everyone in your group had a Manastone and a 7th one dropped. You weren't obligated to hand it over to someone just hanging out there.

I maintained lists to join a group on live using pen and paper. "Sure, we'll add you to the list to join the group, you're 15th" or whatever. Same as people do now for Ancient Cyclops.

But a list to just be handed a non-lore item that drops from a camp I'm in? No way.

All this said, I still think that some automated implementation of loot-listing is needed to curb toxicity here.

[Hyjalx]

Knee jerk reactions. Its as simple as that. No matter how badly we want to change the game to fit someones narrative or complaints, it cannot be done without ruining the concept entirely.

Classic and Custom are 2 totally different things.

[loramin]

P.S. I think the far more interesting case of "custom code" is stuff like AoE mob limits, as that sort of thing makes you realize that even "strict adherence to classic mechanics" is subjective.

[Hyjalx]

GMs never enforced rotations on camps Loramin....it just didnt happen. Our problem is too much staff involvement in intricate parts of the game.

Uthgaard knew how to handle the community. It's been downhill since.

[booter]

Originally Posted by Hyjalx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Uthgaard knew how to handle the community.

With biased rulings that eventually made him step down disgracefully?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Hyjalx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

GMs never enforced rotations on camps Loramin....it just didnt happen. Our problem is too much staff involvement in intricate parts of the game.

Originally Posted by The "Book" (Text File) They Gave the GMs on Live

8.2.3 Contested Spawn Complaints

When a complaint is received indicating that a spawn or kill is contested, a disruption investigation should first be initiated according to the procedures of section 8.2.2 to determine if harassment or Zone/Area disruption is occurring. After following those procedures and issuing warnings as necessary, instruct the parties involved in the contested spawn situation to work out a compromise. Then leave the scene.

If another complaint is received involving the same spawn site, another disruption investigation should be initiated. After following those procedures and issuing warnings as necessary, if any of the parties involved were involved in the initial situation, establish a compromise for the parties to which the parties are required to abide. The compromise should be as described in section 8.2.3.1. Any party refusing to abide by the compromise established by the CS Representative should be issued a warning for disruption.

On PvP servers, where players can reach a solution to the contested spawn situation, the CS Representative does not need to require the players to share the spawn.

8.2.3.1 The compromise will require all parties to take turns killing the spawn(s). All parties involved in the contested spawn should be instructed to use /random 0 100 to choose a number. The CS Representative then uses /random 0 100. The individual with the closest number to the CS Representative’s number will be next in the rotation. The CS Representative then bases the rest of the rotation order on how close the other parties’ numbers were to theirs. The compromise established by a CS Representative must be objective and not require the CS Representative to choose one customer over another based on subjective criteria. The CS Representative is the arbiter in any disputes in establishing the compromise. 8.2.3.1

Again, the exact details of the mechanism have to be different here because we don't have paid GMs and "paid with free play time" Guides. And people can absolutely have legitimate quibbles with how faithfully or unfaithfully /list represents what live did. Personally I think the fact that lists can go on for days is a meaningful departure from live, and IMHO creates an unnecessary problem here.

But the simple fact of the matter is that, whatever your personal experience, Verant was telling every last one of their paid employees to settle things with lists.

[Hyjalx]

Now its frapsquest, lists, and rooted dragons...


How is that classic? One thing leads to another and it becomes a custom server like it currently is. Too much staff involvement = bad for community to regulate itself

[Valeriya]

Originally Posted by Hyjalx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now its frapsquest, lists, and rooted dragons...


How is that classic? One thing leads to another and it becomes a custom server like it currently is. Too much staff involvement = bad for community to regulate itself

P99 is garabage now

[Nirgon]

The blue playerbase, not the red one, is the reason had to spend his time making this btw. Otherwise, you Antonican MAGGOTS would have destroyed this fresh roll up with cooking the books on lists and handing off only when non guildies had given up and logged. Or lies about what dropped etc. I can only imagine.