Something to tank about - Page 4

GreldorEQ · #1 10-07-2019, 04:18 PM

We are going to be many months away from having clerics around to do rezzes for the sake or rezzing, survivability on green will be so very important.

That being said, the survivability aspect of knights are going to outshine a warrior in group content. The tools in the toolbox for knights help make this happen, snare, root, stun, LoH, Harmtouch, FD.

Dying is going to be a giant pain in the ass on green, where it is a marginal inconvenience on blue today. It will drive a noticeable difference in the players who can master their classes with only classic spell-sets and weapons.

Gustoo · #2 10-07-2019, 03:47 PM

Warriors do more dps and hold aggro OK.

SK and Pal and Ranger get more hate but the first two are bad dps and the last one is an inferior tank.

Ogre classes are going to be the best tanks in vanilla by a long shot. Their base stats and stun resist are the best. I'm a ranger guy but they don't stand up to an ogre when it comes to tanking. If ogres could be rangers it would be a different story.

All I'm trying to say is that id take any warrior or sk or paladin for tanking duties on green. Monk and Ranger are okay too.

Glasken · #3 10-07-2019, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warriors do more dps and hold aggro OK.

SK and Pal and Ranger get more hate but the first two are bad dps and the last one is an interior tank.

Ogre classes are going to be the best tanks in vanilla by a long shot. Their base stats and stun resist are the best. I'm a ranger guy but they don't stand up to an ogre when it comes to tanking. If ogres could be rangers it would be a different story.

Basically my long-winded comments in a nutshell.

I would add the paladin in there however. Yes ogres are great and the race adds a lot to the classes they can play, but they arnt the best group tank just because #ogre. Size is an issue, mobility is an issue, and even a pretty-faced elf paladin can take a hit pretty much as well as an ogre shadowknight can until you start getting into the really hard stuff at 45-50 (damn bashing evil frogs come to mind).

I think it's important to keep the frame of discussion about leveling groups. Fact is, warriors mitigate the best but snap agro the worst, and pathing bugs aside they dont pull any better than just making some tiny trains.

Jimjam · #4 10-07-2019, 03:50 PM

There is only 10 difference in defence skill between ranger and warrior on vanilla though...

Furthermore, early game both will be wearing banded, late game both wear mithril; Main difference is hp pool.

Can someone confirm if wiki is right on the level 50 skill cap for defence (in vanilla) is 230? Their avoidance, and mitigation if going for an AC build, is just going to be so far beyond anyone else?

sciception · #5 10-07-2019, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is only 10 difference in defence skill between ranger and warrior on vanilla though...

Furthermore, early game both will be wearing banded, late game both wear mithril; Main difference is hp pool.

Can someone confirm if wiki is right on the level 50 skill cap for defence (in vanilla) is 230? Their avoidance, and mitigation if going for an AC build, is just going to be so far beyond anyone else?

Love to know myself. Also, the Ranger is going to have a higher avoidance multiplier, so until I see a table with class specific mitigation differences I won't be changing the order. I probably still wouldn't change Paladin to #2 due to the insane learning curve compared to Rangers.

Jimjam · #6 10-07-2019, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sciception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Love to know myself. Also, the Ranger is going to have a higher avoidance multiplier, so until I see a table with class specific mitigation differences I won't be changing the order. I probably still wouldn't change Paladin to #2 due to the insane learning curve compared to Rangers.

If this stuff about mitigation/avoidance tables is correct, i don't think p1999 has such a feature.

I remember when i was investigating AC i found ranger took a similar average hit in KC to other classes (because it was easy to reach the point of diminished return for AC) but MASSIVELY lagged behind on avoidance. I think i comment on my data with more detail in the old bard vs ranger thread.

Ranger on blue doesn't live up to their reputation on classic. I'm not sure if this is because itemisation is better understood or if rangers are simply bugged.

sciception · #7 10-07-2019, 04:23 PM

Not necessarily for leveling purposes, but when Warriors get two Yaks they become much stronger and more viable for sure. Just thought I'd concede this point even though no one has brought it up.

astuce999 · #8 10-07-2019, 04:43 PM

Neat.

20 years later and 4 pages in and no one mentions a bard tank.

I guess Green will be a truly classic experience on that level.

*note: I will grant you all that most players who play bards won't be able to tank, so if you want to do a 'in reality' thing, sure, there won't be many bard tanks on the server.

good times ahead.

Astuce

Glasken · #9 10-07-2019, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astuce999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Neat.

20 years later and 4 pages in and no one mentions a bard tank.

I guess Green will be a truly classic experience on that level.

*note: I will grant you all that most players who play bards won't be able to tank, so if you want to do a 'in reality' thing, sure, there won't be many bard tanks on the server.

good times ahead.

Astuce

*ahem*

I did mention a bard tank. And put them where they belong.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glasken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...

While a ranger is a great benefit to any group, a bard can tank just as well.

...

Fight me.

Glasken · #10 10-07-2019, 05:16 PM

I have been out of the loop on P99 for a while, so I went forum searching.

Looking into the AC issues, I can see how it would be a massive undertaking to get AC values correct if the original (or at least close-to-era) tables are gone.

I'll do some more looking around, but I did manage to find this post from an EQ DEV regarding AC:

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/.../#post-3078126

It's Daybreak, and it's Apr 16, 2014, but worth a look I think.

I also vaguely remember a post a looooong time ago that blew my mind about how warriors worked. It was during the early stages of Luclin and was made by a person who played a female gnome warrior that was doing research on how the weapon damage bonuses worked and how AC worked by parsing themselves and guildmates getting hit and hitting with various bits of gear added or removed. Only thing I can remember about the forum is that it used a white background...super helpful I know.

Trying to find the forum post but it may be lost.