Plane of Mischief Questions...

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Seungkyu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The guy has 5000+ posts, makes thoughtful commentaries, and does his best to be helpful.

10/10 Would take advice from Loramin.

Originally Posted by Nuggie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loramin has done more than most for the wiki, helps build the community.

+1 for Loramin... sure would be nice to have a post point system like the FoH forums. (Not a criticism Rogdog, just wistful wishing)

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is one thing to go out of your way to be helpful to others, its another to be rude and disruptive.

I know which one I'd prefer the server had more of.

+1 for Loramin

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Originally Posted by zodium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

giving advice that's trivially and often comically wrong isn't really that helpful tbh

Man, you are really bad at this subjective/objective stuff. Let's consider just one item, the chest piece, because it probably makes your case the strongest and it's been held up as an example in this discussion.

But first let me be clear, because when a person says something in one context, and someone else takes it out of context, that doesn't make the first person "wrong", it makes the second person an ass. I'm talking about having just one BP, the same as I was back on page 1. Obviously two BPs are better than one, and if you can have a stats BP and a clickie BP you get (almost all of) the benefits of both worlds.

AC: 20
STR: +5 STA: +7 WIS: +14 HP: +50 MANA: +80
SV FIRE: +9 SV MAGIC: +9 SV POISON: +9
Effect: Regrowth of the Grove (Any Slot/Can Equip, Casting Time: 9.0)

vs.

AC: 32
STR: +5 WIS: +15 INT: +15 HP: +50 MANA: +90
SV DISEASE: +15 SV MAGIC: +15 SV POISON: +15

Clearly stat-wise the PoM chest piece is better. You get a net +18 to resists, +12 to AC, +10 Mana, and +1 Wis, and you only lose -7 Sta. As I said, stat-wise the chest piece is one of the strongest upgrades ...

... and yet I still maintain that if you have to choose just one, the Skyshrine piece is better because of the click. If I could have only one BP for the rest of my life, I sincerely would choose the Skyshrine one.

I guarantee you will never notice +1 Wis, +10 Mana, or even +12 AC as a Druid (or rather, you'll notice them about as much as you'll notice the -7 Sta). You might notice the saves, in that you'll maybe get feared 1 out of 20 times less or so ...

... but you will definitely notice not having to go into your spell book to mem Regrowth of the Grove everytime someone wants it. You'll especially notice when that last person joins the group the moment after you just regrowth-ed everyone else (which, Murphy's Law, often happens), or when you're low on mana. But every single time you want to cast that spell and you don't have to waste time sitting down, paging to the right page, memming the spell, casting it, then sitting down again to remove it and replace it with another spell, you'll notice.

And of course, the 600 mana Regrowth the BP saves you each time is nothing to sneeze at. Assuming you recast every 20 minutes that's 30/mana a minute, or half a mana a second (ie. roughly the same amount as FT3). But really the time saved is an even bigger deal to me.

A few meaningless stats and 1 in 20 less times running feared vs. saving myself at least ten seconds of of meaningless effort every twenty minutes I play the game (and getting FT3 as long as I would have been casting it anyway?)

And remember, to lose all that isn't free: it will cost you over 100k in plat/PoM cards.

You're that certain that I'm objectively wrong about all that that you're ready to die on that hill?



P.S. In my opinion the case for PoM armor is actually much stronger on the pieces without clickies. Twisted Nature Gloves are objectively better than Woven Grass Gauntlets ... but as I said in the post that started this all, the differences between those two items are:

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

not as dramatic as the Enchanter robe or Shaman boots.

[Nuggie]

Incoming a one line response proving troll status.

[fortior]

Originally Posted by Nuggie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Incoming a one line response proving troll status.

I guess if you go by word count loramin is always right, because he is unable to say anything in <2 paragraphs

If stats and BiS don't matter, save yourself 10-20k and just MQ the thurg tunic

[Evia]

do pickup groups happen in PoM? or just solo duo ventures? I need to make cash to buy all my SS MQs and these playing cards look to be lucrative.

[zodium]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Clearly stat-wise the PoM chest piece is better. You get a net +18 to resists, +12 to AC, +10 Mana, and +1 Wis, and you only lose -7 Sta. As I said, stat-wise the chest piece is one of the strongest upgrades ...

... and yet I still maintain that if you have to choose just one, the Skyshrine piece is better because of the click. If I could have only one BP for the rest of my life, I sincerely would choose the Skyshrine one.

let me level with you: you don't have to choose just one. "if you have to choose just one" leads to prima facie ungood decisions like "Skyshrine BP is good." making ungood decisions is itself ungood. thus, it is in fact plusungood, because, as you note, the Skyshrine druid BP is an at best neutral chest item which costs somewhere between three and infinity times the two main alternatives: Thurgadin and PoH. three and infinity are both bigger numbers than one, which means the Skyshrine BP is more expensive than equivalent alternatives. with me so far? that's plusgood!

follow-along example: when I won my first Unadorned Leather Tunic as a wee Manno in full Crystal Chitin, I sold the MQ to a monk. then I bought a Thurg BP MQ, pocketed the 30k difference. then I used that difference to buy a Red Throne for a Plane of Mischief BP. this was doubleplusgood. edit: on reflection, I think I did it the other way around.

Originally Posted by Nuggie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Incoming a one line response proving troll status.

loramin receives the exact verbosity warranted by the substance of his posting.

Originally Posted by Evia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

do pickup groups happen in PoM? or just solo duo ventures? I need to make cash to buy all my SS MQs and these playing cards look to be lucrative.

it's almost exclusively a solo/duo situation for enchanters, druids and shamans. clerics and monks can also get in on it sometimes. personally I love it, very nice camps suiting both semi-afk (chest/a4) and very active play (puppets), but I wouldn't say it's particularly lucrative because of the low number of mobs and extremely low drop rates producing a ton of variance. i've gotten back-to-back thrones solo. i've gone 40 puppet shows at ~60 minutes each with zero drops in a duo. the variance is real and strong.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by zodium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

let me level with you: you don't have to choose just one.

So you're saying your entire argument that I'm "wrong" (and shouldn't be posting) ... the entire thing you've spent pages fighting over ... isn't even based on you having a legitimate disagreement with me?

Remember, the original context of this thread, before you entered, was talking about whether someone (an Enchanter, not even a Druid) should upgrade a single piece of SS armor to PoM armor, and whether it was worth the cost to do so. Then Baylan chimed in and mentioned the other classes, and in that context, I replied.

You claim I often write too much, and I probably do. There's multiple reasons, but here's a big one: my reply there wasn't long, and look where it got me? If I don't spell out every last detail in every post I write, assholes like you show up to argue with things I never said.

In the original context my quote made perfect sense. I never even disagreed with you, because I never said you had to choose just one or whether two BPs was better than one: I just assumed that the hypothetical person we were discussing was picking one, because the conversation hadn't specified that exact detail and we were just generally talking about which set was better.

Now look, in a text-based forum, without faces and tones of voice, people can make different assumptions about the conversation. I can completely understand how you might have seen the context differently. But you know, a normal/sane person would have said "do you really mean PoM is only a little better, because if you get it, but keep some Velious armor around for clickies you get the best of both worlds, and those stats are pretty clearly better?" If you had I would have agreed with you, and that would have been the end of it.

But instead you started this this giant fight over absolutely nothing ... and managed to RnF-up an otherwise perfectly normal Server Chat thread.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But first let me be clear, because when a person says something in one context, and someone else takes it out of context, that doesn't make the first person "wrong", it makes the second person an ass.

[sedrie.bellamie]

can I do anything with this jester card I got?

what is sniffles respawn time?

oh is this not POM Questions and just armor debate? get the black velious leather from the rats in DN, looks nice. Gnome skin armor is neat too

[loramin]

Originally Posted by sedrie.bellamie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

can I do anything with this jester card I got?

Not that I'm aware of.

Originally Posted by sedrie.bellamie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what is sniffles respawn time?

No idea but an Allakhazam comment says "36 hours with a +/- 10%" and that seems roughly right.

Originally Posted by sedrie.bellamie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

oh is this not POM Questions and just armor debate?

The answer to that depends on who you ask (hint: don't ask Zodium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]).

[Crawdad]

I remember Druid PoM armor being very much hot pink on live, but it looks pretty Meh here. As such it's a waste at the most important aspect of p99, fashion. Nobody wants to be caught wearing full SS/Kael/Thurg and then a Tizmak-looking Bp.

Where's all these good Druid spots I hear about in PoM? I'm told to do forest and then rats and some other spots. But after speaking with some druids in-game, I get conflicting info on the "money" camps. So, questions: 1) Druids soloing A3? and 2) A3 does/does not drop thrones? Anyone care to elucidate? I'm starting to go stir crazy at bear pits, and would dig a change of venue to a zone I didn't have time for on live.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Crawdad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I remember Druid PoM armor being very much hot pink on live, but it looks pretty Meh here. As such it's a waste at the most important aspect of p99, fashion. Nobody wants to be caught wearing full SS/Kael/Thurg and then a Tizmak-looking Bp.

Where's all these good Druid spots I hear about in PoM? I'm told to do forest and then rats and some other spots. But after speaking with some druids in-game, I get conflicting info on the "money" camps. So, questions: 1) Druids soloing A3? and 2) A3 does/does not drop thrones? Anyone care to elucidate? I'm starting to go stir crazy at bear pits, and would dig a change of venue to a zone I didn't have time for on live.

Dunno about the FashionQuest aspect, except that my brown PoM boots look great with my green Skyshrine armor (and black Vindi BP), so I'm not complaining [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As for Druid "money camps", forest and rats are not it: the best you can get out of either is Knights, and those sell for less than a k.

The big money camp, which I have seen Druids do, is A4. Charm a rat from A1 (or A2 or A3 if you're brave; also I've seen people bring other animals from elsewhere in PoM). Bring it to A4 and ... profit! (A4 drops Thrones, while A3 only drops Crowns, so while you could make plat there, and it will be far less contested than A4, it's an order of magnitude lower less lucrative).

For other "money camps" see http://wiki.project1999.com/Plane_of_Mischief_Cards (the Thrones section), but what it boils down to is a few hard to find and/or kill mobs all over the zone (Stomples, the False Treasure Chest, a white stallion and a Dastardly Rascal) and the puppets (which you'll need a duo for).

So basically, plan to spend a lot of time at A4 ... and when I say "A4" I really mean "the twins OR rat and ape ... if you're lucky and don't have to split rat and ape with someone else" ... because it's a very popular camp.