What type of PVP server would you want

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by AffEcT [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am a bit surprised that team got the votes.
Team is not very good for balance if you ask me.

If you think teams aren't very good balance, you haven't played TZVZ FFA server. The balance is so bad that a guild named Heresy will create a zerg of 40 people on a population of 100 server then after everyone quits because it's terrible, they have to split their guild into two and Rexx leads one guild and Knuckle leads the other guild and they fight each other. Wow that sounds fucking awesome?

Originally Posted by AffEcT [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Evil team = SK, Necro minus Druid, Paladin
SK and Necro are two of the strongest PvP classes in the game.
No shit evil team won the server =P

SK and Necro are the least of reasons for why evil dominated the server. We didn't even have one single SK in my guild because it was looked down upon as a no skill idiot class so nobody wanted to be "that guy". Then we had 2 necros at raids out of 28 people.

It wasn't until something like PoP era that you saw guilds like Hate with 10 SK's at a raid of 40 people.

There's plenty of info on why things turned out on SZ the way they did in this post: http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...5&postcount=25

The good team only managed to field one guild (black prophecy), but if the numbers below are anywhere near correct, it wasn't because population issues. They had too many noobs and casual players or something. If you combined the good and neutral team for creating this server, you really have no damn excuse for why evils would win except for incompetence.



Best Guess Server Population
--------------------------------
These population estimates are based on the assumption that everyone level 6 and above were either killed or killed someone atleast once during the month. It's not perfect but it's the best we can do without more help from Sony.

August '02
Good: 1485 - 33.2%
Neutral: 1201 - 26.9%
Evil: 1783 - 39.9%
September '02

Good: 1941 - 34.0%
Neutral: 1485 - 26.0%
Evil: 2279 - 39.9%

December '02

Good: 1904 - 33.7%
Neutral: 1367 - 24.2%
Evil: 2384 - 42.2%

January '03

Good: 2310 - 33.9%
Neutral: 1675 - 24.6%
Evil: 2834 - 41.6%

Febuary '03

Good: 2276 - 36.1%
Neutral: 1483 - 23.5%
Evil: 2554 - 40.5%

March '03

Good: 2162 - 35.8%
Neutral: 1486 - 24.6%
Evil: 2386 - 39.5%

[AffEcT]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you think teams aren't very good balance, you haven't played TZVZ FFA server. The balance is so bad that a guild named Heresy will create a zerg of 40 people on a population of 100 server then after everyone quits because it's terrible, they have to split their guild into two and Rexx leads one guild and Knuckle leads the other guild and they fight each other. Wow that sounds fucking awesome?

I have played VZTZ from the very start (Digital/Arrows) and i know that the server was a bit screwed up.
But come on.... Yes Heresy zerged and whined like bitches wen the same thing happened against em.
They even got them selfs a wipe that basically destroyed the server.
But that doesn't matter. Some ppl are just no lifers. They will do whatever it takes to stay on top.
Doesn't matter if we have team or FFA. This will always be the case.

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

SK and Necro are the least of reasons for why evil dominated the server. We didn't even have one single SK in my guild because it was looked down upon as a no skill idiot class so nobody wanted to be "that guy". Then we had 2 necros at raids out of 28 people.

I am not claiming to know everything like some ppl do.
But i was just saying that this could have been
one of the issues on the balance front.
And i think that players should be able to play whatever race class they want to.

[Salty]

Because you are fucking stupid Wehr.

Naez goes Neut, some blues go neut. Both are at efreeti. Naez can only train the other guy out instead of kill him.

Salty goes Evil, Harrison goes evil. Guess we can't pvp each other now.

Originally Posted by Lasher

group to Efreeti in solb and find a same team camping it and in those situation and blue sever and a red server do not differ

Originally Posted by Wehr

If people on the same team are camping the efreeti....that's called grouping...

[Penoy Lives]

Make Rallos Zek circa 1999..... item loot!!!

[Alawen Everywhere]

Team based 1-50.

I am intimately familiar with the plight of the good team on Sullon Zek. Black Prophecy didn't exist until almost a year into the server. The first big guild was Sect. Then Sect exploded because that wood elf warrior whose name I can't remember and Miloie were ripping everyone off. Then there was a time of only shitty guilds like Northern Lights of Halas and Bringers of Retribution. Then there was Divine Vigilance which was pretty good but... Miloie drama again. Then there was the short-lived Trump, which was arguably the best of the good team guilds. Finally, Black Prophecy emerged under the leadership of Damiax. Everything comes down to two things: not enough clerics and only one warrior, Frosthound. For a while we had another good warrior, Katrina, but during the early days the leadership made it clear that she was never going to get gear so she rerolled to an SK and joined Ruin. She was an awesome PVP partner. Love you, Kat, wherever you are! The cleric and tank problem was insurmountable. Remember that dwarves were neutral, so our paladins were shitty stats combined with no gear. We had no SKs, leaving only a handful of warriors. We literally maxed at three clerics for a long, long time. To top things off, we had no good guild or raid leader until Damiax. I don't even remember who was the supposed leader of Trump, because it was very democratic.

tl;dr The failure of the good team on Sullon Zek had nothing to do with races and everything to do with missing necessary classes and terrible leadership.

That dark vs light thing has me thinking--what if we divided something like this:

Dark:
Troll
Erudite
Dark Elf
Dwarf
Halfling
Iksar

Light
Ogre
Barbarian
Human
Wood Elf
Half Elf
High Elf
Gnome

That's off the top of my head; I'm trying to figure out a logical way to get rangers on the dark team. I think every other class is available in a decent race to both teams.

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That dark vs light thing has me thinking--what if we divided something like this:

Dark:
Troll
Erudite
Dark Elf
Dwarf
Halfling
Iksar

Light
Ogre
Barbarian
Human
Wood Elf
Half Elf
High Elf
Gnome

I'll add it to original page on my post after I double check it to make sure there isn't some kind of serious malfunction.

Originally Posted by Macken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

/duel = x-team healing on most servers.

That can easily be fixed.

Originally Posted by Macken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FFA is way more fun and realistic, but because most people won't rise up themselves when they can't just simply join the top guild, teams supports more population.

First semi-logical Macken post. You REALLY underestimate how low the population would be for FFA P1999 though. EQ is a group based game for PvE and this server will be 1 IP per player. We had boxes to help PvE and level on TZVZ and this server won't, leveling takes longer too.

Do you think anyone not in one of the large guilds will want to play on server like that? Or any new players to the server in general? They aren't going to want to solo to 60 with normal xp rates, especially if they play a pure melee. People will flee from the server faster than Salty from a naked woman.

Once again, Heresy destroys the server by all their guild voting FFA. Have fun playing with 40 people online.

[Walk]

personally i would be happy with a rallos zek type server or a sullon zek, i always though vallon/tallon were for bitchs personally no offense to my red bro's

[Lazortag]

Okay, so I'm reasonably shitty at pvp and won't claim to know that much about it, but I think the server should go with teams. This isn't really my preference, but I think it's just better for the longevity of the server to give people more safety. The people who post on p99 every day about how much they want a pvp server aren't representative of the whole population that likes pvp - most pvp players are more casual and would prefer a server that was a little less hardcore. Notice how quickly Mortalquest's popularity went down, and how often people ragequit on that server. If you're a casual pvper and everyone outside of your guild (if you're even in one) is a potential enemy, you probably won't last that long. And yeah, it sucks that if someone is on your 'team' and you get into a dispute with them or otherwise can't stand them, then you can't do shit about it unless you have an alt of the opposite alignment, but I think if eqemu is going to have another pvp server, Rogean is going to want it to last more than a month and have a consistent population of more than 50 people.

I have some ideas about what the teams should look like, but I need to think about them more. Basically I think it should be based on class, race, and religion, with there being a "one-drop rule" regarding evilness (ie, being the slightest bit evil (belonging to an evil race, class, or religion) puts you on the evil team).

[Jigga]

Teams just opens door for poopsocking and we all know we love that aspect of p99

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the server should go with teams. This isn't really my preference, but I think it's just better for the longevity of the server

Most the people wanting FFA even agree teams would have more longevity. Don't think I saw one person try to debunk the first page analysis. I like to be able to attack anyone I see, but I'm not stupid enough to vote for an option that is going to cause the server population to be half or less of what it could be. I could easily imagine P1999 red getting an even higher population than regular P1999 if it went teams.

EQ PvE is group based. With only 1 IP allowed per player and slow leveling, going FFA is suicide for population. Imagine being a new player to server not in a guild playing some stupid class like a dwarf rogue. You're completely unable to solo, you look around and there's nothing but a couple 30-40 man uber guilds, anybody you try to group with kills you. There goes the server population.

Is there anyone that actually disagrees with the shadowrest stuff from the first page plus all the other things? The only thing I see in dispute is FFA vs Teams. I tried to list everything that would keep server population high as possible and keep GM involvement as low as possible. Don't really even need server rules at all with that setup which will be a nice change from TZVZ.

Originally Posted by Foxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

not here to shoot down what you're saying, I just don't think anybody would be able to survive as a half elf, you think so?

They won't be any worse off than the enormous freeport area battles that will ensue. That's the whole point of the server, you have to kill off the other people to take zone control. Heresy won't have less people to fight, you will be fighting off MORE people.

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(ie, being the slightest bit evil (belonging to an evil race, class, or religion) puts you on the evil team).

You can't use that methodology because there aren't enough evil races and no evils with access to druid, paladin, and ranger either. The absolute closest you can do for a semi-believable roleplay setup and still give each team every class is the following setup:

Dark Elf Alliance (evil)

Dark Elf
Troll
Iksar
Ogre
Half Elf
Erudite


Human Alliance (good)

Human
Dwarf
Gnome
Halfling
High Elf
Barbarian
Wood Elf