PvP Thread, Balancing issues / Parsing / Resists / Known issues.

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Bombfist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-Hit box, how close you need to be to hit smeone or get hit by someone

This was a big issue on TZVZ and made it so you couldn't even hit people running away from you when I played. Don't remember if it was ever fixed.

Originally Posted by Bombfist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-Did different races have smaller or bigger hit boxes

I have some experience with games and if it was me doing it, I would create a boundry box around the NPC as a guide that extends in each direction until the character was fully enclosed but no farther. This original boundry box would serve as a collision detection marker. Then I would just define the hit box by making it X amount of units past the collision detection box in each direction. So yea, each race would have the same values for hit box, but the hit box would be based off distance from their collision box in an ideal world.

If you just want to input a flat variable based off the distance of the center of the polygon model, I'm sure you could get someone to load macroquest and log on EQ live and figure out what these values should be using distance commands to check using trial and error.

I'm not really sure what macroquest uses as a base point to determine distance though, if it's the actual center of the character or just some random pivot point or some random spot on the characters head.

Originally Posted by Bombfist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-Rog's degree of angle to land a Back stab

edit: I would use 178degrees max and 160 degrees minimum.

Originally Posted by Bombfist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-Should pets zone should they not. "pets did not zone with players until the patch July 14th, 2004"

Don't think this is that big of an issue if pets are nerfed down to be their actual HP and attack values during the time period. (no, not original day 1 necro pets that quadded for 100 or whatever). Nobody would play pet casters if they didn't zone.

Originally Posted by Bombfist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-Should spells require LoS start and finish of cast,

Yes. In the first expansion, melee damage is gimp so I don't think it's that big of a deal if casters have to deal with line of sight as a trade off for much better burst DPS. Once kunark comes out, there are fast casting wizard draughts and faster mage nukes so it's way less of an issue then. If you remove the "melee better in dungeons and casters better outside" dynamic, then it just wouldn't be EQ either.

Originally Posted by Bombfist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-Should bards ench be able to charm poof mage pets

Mez yes, charm possibly, poof no.

Originally Posted by Bombfist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-Levitate Z Axis issues

Define hit box based on what I said above and there is no issue. You wouldn't be able to hit infinite Z axis then and that's the way it's supposed to be.

Originally Posted by Bombfist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-Fear/Charm/Whirl to you hurl are all spells that need looking at.

Are you trying to claim that whirl till you hurl should be a PvP usable spell and people are just supposed to stand there stunned for like 20 seconds straight? I hope you're joking

Originally Posted by Bombfist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-"There was no difference in paralyzing earth landing on 45 mr as there was on 90mr." MR Scaling

During EQ Classic, Kunark, and Velious on live PvP servers, I don't ever remember being rooted with 100 or more MR. The resist system for this PvP server should be done the same way and if casters aren't good enough, just apply negative resist modifiers to only their damage spells.

[Macken]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes. In the first expansion, melee damage is gimp so I don't think it's that big of a deal if casters have to deal with line of sight as a trade off for much better burst DPS. Once kunark comes out, there are fast casting wizard draughts and faster mage nukes so it's way less of an issue then. If you remove the "melee better in dungeons and casters better outside" dynamic, then it just wouldn't be EQ either.

Smedy has already warned the GM's about this. If you are a GM and read the above hilarity, do not be trolled.


EQ is Melee oriented through Velious and beyond. If you want to be a top pvper, roll melee. Because if you roll a caster, there is no way to be a top pkr past week 3, unless you have played alot...even then... it would be tough.

There is no dungeon that a caster could win a fight in with a LoS check at end of casting. It gets even worse in Kunark, which is why the above troll was over the top. Less is more when trolling Macht.

If you want to get rid of all casters, then you should just do it at the beginning instead of making them figure it out after 6 weeks of exping, then they quit.

All of the melee trolls in this and the other thread about their need to remain OP vs. casters will end the same way VZTZ did. You will have your time in the sun, but in the end, you will be playing alone. And this time, you won't have anyone to buff or port you because we are all melees now.

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Macken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you want to be a top pvper, roll melee. Because if you roll a caster, there is no way to be a top pkr past week 3, unless you have played alot...even then... it would be tough.

First off, this statement is completely false because anyone that played Sullon Zek from day 1 will remember the top of the scoreboard was nothing but casters until the day the scoreboard shut down. Druids with tracking and Darkenbane wizards with tracking would sneak up on people all day and blow them away with spells. The server came out when Velious was max expansion just like this server.

Classes like monks were completely useless for PvP due to having barely any access to resist gear whatosever and no 2h access either. I think I had like 70 magic resist while fighting in karnors at level 58 and I was in the best guild on the server. There wasn't jacinth jewelery and tstaffs falling out of the sky like on TZVZ. I think a druid could cast damage shield on themselves, spam self heal and kill a h2h monk with no buffs or haste. Sure a monk with Tstaff is overpowered but you can camp one for 6 months straight and not see one on real EQ. Rogue is the same way, terrible for pvp without epic. Even if they get an epic, anyone that isn't retarded and can use a 2h still rapes them.

I think you people underestimate how awful melee damage is with no buffs or haste (which will be the norm for a no bot server). On TZVZ, strength didn't do anything and the max damage multiplier was set to a fixed value of like 4.5 or 5.0. For an unbuffed human, dark elf, etc, that multiplier will be like a 3.0 on this server. So yea, you're already looking at an enormous damage reduction for anyone not playing a raid geared ogre, troll, or barb.

Originally Posted by Macken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is no dungeon that a caster could win a fight in with a LoS check at end of casting. It gets even worse in Kunark, which is why the above troll was over the top. Less is more when trolling Macht.

For LoS, casters had no problem whatsoever pvp'ing in Karnors and Sebillis was a nightmare for anyone to PvP in regardless of their class.

Originally Posted by Macken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All of the melee trolls in this and the other thread about their need to remain OP vs. casters will end the same way VZTZ did. You will have your time in the sun, but in the end, you will be playing alone. And this time, you won't have anyone to buff or port you because we are all melees now.

You do know that epic mage pets could solo warriors in kunark right? And necros cast 2700 damage dots that land basically every time?

There are only 3 offensive casters in game: wiz, mage, and necro

All three of those do fine during Kunark and velious. I'll admit sending an epic mage pet then running away and hiding doesn't sound all that fun but whatever, it gets the job done.

[Macken]

Not sure if this is the correct time or place, but just in case it is....

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First off, this statement is completely false because anyone that played Sullon Zek from day 1 will remember the top of the scoreboard was nothing but casters until the day the scoreboard shut down.



For LoS, casters had no problem whatsoever pvp'ing in Karnors and Sebillis was a nightmare for anyone to PvP in regardless of their class.

Cool story bro. Too bad for you, I happen to know intimately about SZ scoreboard. The only casters anywhere near the top were MQ'ing MB'ing wizards. When MB got nerfed, all the melees rose back up top where they had been before MB came out. For the majority of the board's lifetime and especially at the end, melees made up most of the top 10. And just in case you were wondering, it was an Sk at #1 when the board went down, his name was Iackey and he had over 110,000 points. Bring it bro.

If you are gonna make up crap, at least make it up about something no one else will know about.

Not to constantly call you out but reading your posts, you seem excruciatingly Monk centric. How would you know anything about playing a caster, especially as something as advanced as playing a pvp caster in a dungeon? Casters had no problem with LoS? Are you *#&$ing kidding? During Velious they tried the LoS check to finish a spell...for about 2 weeks... then they promptly changed it back... wonder why that was?

Let's just say melees don't need any more advantage over casters than they already historicly have, especially in a dungeon.

But waiting for you to turn from green to white in lguk at the raster spawn was fun.

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Macken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only casters anywhere near the top were MQ'ing MB'ing wizards. When MB got nerfed, all the melees rose back up top where they had been before MB came out. For the majority of the board's lifetime and especially at the end, melees made up most of the top 10. And just in case you were wondering, it was an Sk at #1 when the board went down, his name was Iackey and he had over 110,000 points. Bring it bro.

Are you high on crack dude. We're talking about p1999 PvP server here. I obviously wasn't referring to any point on EQ live where manaburn was even in the game since that won't be a feature on a p1999 PvP server.

During the time period this server will represent on Sullon zek, the scoreboard was all Darkenbane casters and a few random people like some druid named "dharma" and "greg".

I don't think you or Xebeken or this Iackey guy that I've never heard of even played on Sullon Zek during the Kunark and Velious time period which is what this server will be.

All your complaints about melee seem based on playing PoP era against fully Vex Thal geared Tides of Wrath melee.

So here I am to tell you that in the real world, if this server was to actually emulate the Kunark era properly, most melee will be useless for a long time and a living hell to play for months.

[mimixownzall]

Originally Posted by Macken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Smedy has already warned the GM's about this. If you are a GM and read the above hilarity, do not be trolled.


EQ is Melee oriented through Velious and beyond. If you want to be a top pvper, roll melee. Because if you roll a caster, there is no way to be a top pkr past week 3, unless you have played alot...even then... it would be tough.

There is no dungeon that a caster could win a fight in with a LoS check at end of casting. It gets even worse in Kunark, which is why the above troll was over the top. Less is more when trolling Macht.

If you want to get rid of all casters, then you should just do it at the beginning instead of making them figure it out after 6 weeks of exping, then they quit.

All of the melee trolls in this and the other thread about their need to remain OP vs. casters will end the same way VZTZ did. You will have your time in the sun, but in the end, you will be playing alone. And this time, you won't have anyone to buff or port you because we are all melees now.

Uh... what? Wizards ruled SZ through Velious at least. The top PVPers were wizards. I beg that the 40% rule be removed until Manaburn/Lifeburn (if it ever gets to SoL) like it was on classic. These hard hitting spells are very situational and most of the time can be LoS'd or ran out of range by time it goes off.

Please don't run off casters with retarded resists and the stupid 40% rule.

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by mimixownzall [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please don't run off casters with retarded resists and the stupid 40% rule.

I don't know what you mean by 40% rule but spells did like 66% of normal damage. It isn't like that just to balance against melees but for caster vs caster PvP too. I don't know if you can call it PvP if 2 casters fighting results in someone getting one shoted every time. Necros are throwing around 2700 damage dots in kunark and shamans do 2200 damage bane of nife poison dots. Do you really think there should be no damage reduction and a necro dot or shaman poison dot should 1 shot kill almost every class in the game?

[Bombfist]

Opening post updated with tested information on p99

I won't parse on p99, the data will be too small to be of any value, we need a dev server to parse properly, the tests i can do for now with the characters Isidro kindly put forward is all i can do for now, if someone else has chars they can help with it would be appreciated, thanks again.

[tj218]

It was probably 160 at the max to avoid some kind of side strafing exploit BS'ing. I think 160 would probably be the best value overall..

Bah, I don't have the data, but on live during Kunark and before, I remember joust fights where I (as a Rouge) would land backstabs on the pass. In fact I remember practicing this for hours with a friend to get my timing right. It was always 180 degrees....

[Isidro]

PM'd you, bombfist.