Rules on Camps that have lists

[Slave35]

Originally Posted by Boyblunder [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...19&postcount=9

Pretty clear-cut, and these exact rules have been around in one form or another for quite some time. I really need to compile a "Project 1999: Errata and other extraneous information" post to put all this stuff. For now, this will have to do:

Camp holder has the right to pass the camp to whoever he would like. However, and this is very important, two things must happen in order for this to be a legitimate hand-off:

1) The player being handed the camp must be present around the time the first placeholder spawns after the last holder of the camp has gotten his or her item in hand. The person handing off the camp must stay at the spawn until the next person in line arrives, if that person is on their way to take the camp. There is a little leeway here, and we refuse to set an exact timer on how long the placeholder can be up before the camp is forfeited, but in general it should never be for more than a couple minutes or so. We tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the person coming in to take the camp in these situations as CSR staff, so waiting a bit longer will never hurt. W

2) The person holding the camp cannot mislead you, or change his mind after telling you who is next. Something that no one ever does (and I will never understand why) is to specifically address the camp holder, asking who is next or if you can be next. The camp holder does need to reveal to you who the next intended camp holder is - if he doesn't, you may ask to be next and your claim will be valid unless he reveals the next person immediately. This person cannot change after the camp holder has "revealed" the next person to take the camp to you. It is an automatic forfeit if this occurs. If you ask to be the next camp holder and are told yes, the camp holder may not later retract or change this agreement and attempt to hand the camp off to someone else - it's yours once he has gotten his item or moved on from the camp.

Something else important to note about handing off camps - in particular, popular ones, but this applies to any camp that becomes contested. If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example) you are done camping that mob. The person coming to take the camp had better be prepared at this point in order to come eliminate the very next placeholder spawn in order to "stake his claim" on the mob. You cannot work wacky corpse lines on lore items in order to grab multiple items in the same "camp session" if there are others waiting to take the camp. Please be aware that we reserve the right to apply this same ruling to any camp if we deem it necessary, including camps with multiple players.

ITT: everyone being willfully ignorant except this guy

[katrik]

I’ve camped AC many times. The fact of that matter is that there is a group of people that follow this player-created list system, and players who do not and follow traditional camp rules. What really needs to happen is for mods to create a specific rule set for this camp. Until that happens, there will continue to be widespread confusion and abuse.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by katrik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’ve camped AC many times. The fact of that matter is that there is a group of people that follow this player-created list system, and players who do not and follow traditional camp rules. What really needs to happen is for mods to create a specific rule set for this camp. Until that happens, there will continue to be widespread confusion and abuse.

I haven't camped the AC in a while, but there were a few natural factors that help keep the camp honest:

1. its a fast a spawn time. very fast actually. its easy to let a ph pop in the camp if you are screwing around, semi-afk, or trying to hand the camp off.

2. unless you are bound there it isn't easy to get to right away, given #1 above that means you have to be ready to go when someone tries to hand it off to you. a legit run to the camp could take 30 minutes from most of norrath...which is multiple PHs.

3. the named ALWAYS drops the ring...which means the person holding the camp is done and someone else is going to get it now. given #1 and #2 above this means the next person has to be ready to take the hand off. in camps where the named doesn't always drop the loot it is impossible to know if the guy just got the item he was camping...which means he could lie and continue to hold the camp while his friend is en route.

The camp is abused by MQ farmers...but I've never had any issue camping there and checking back every few hours waiting to get the camp. Usually it takes a while but its not overly corrupted. Other camps that don't have the above situation make it EXTREMELY easy for someone to abuse a list.

[Menden]

Don't be a douche, it's pretty simple.

[Ella`Ella]

None of this will be an issue on the highly anticipated green server.

[Tethler]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I haven't camped the AC in a while, but there were a few natural factors that help keep the camp honest:

1. its a fast a spawn time. very fast actually. its easy to let a ph pop in the camp if you are screwing around, semi-afk, or trying to hand the camp off.

2. unless you are bound there it isn't easy to get to right away, given #1 above that means you have to be ready to go when someone tries to hand it off to you. a legit run to the camp could take 30 minutes from most of norrath...which is multiple PHs.

3. the named ALWAYS drops the ring...which means the person holding the camp is done and someone else is going to get it now. given #1 and #2 above this means the next person has to be ready to take the hand off. in camps where the named doesn't always drop the loot it is impossible to know if the guy just got the item he was camping...which means he could lie and continue to hold the camp while his friend is en route.

The camp is abused by MQ farmers...but I've never had any issue camping there and checking back every few hours waiting to get the camp. Usually it takes a while but its not overly corrupted. Other camps that don't have the above situation make it EXTREMELY easy for someone to abuse a list.

Yeah, AC in particular is tough due to location. If I want to camp it and get on the list I either, 1) stay in zone and do something else, kill seafuries for example or 2) camp the character who will be killing the mobs at the camp and log an alt till my turn comes up.

I only do (2) if the person at the camp doesn't seem sketchy. If I see 4 of the guys corpses littered around the island I just assume he's corpsing rings and I wait in zone.

When I hand off the camp I obviously inform the new person of the list, but I also tell every person on the list who I am handing off to as well as the people who are ahead of them. I do this specifically for AC camp and no others because people are occasionally douches and will try to pass off to friends or guildies. At least they can be called out on it if the current list members are aware of who is ahead of them.

[Teppler]

The rules are out there but so many people follow their own version of them.

My recent favorite was by someone who said they were a former guide tell me if you don’t answer a cc you don’t have camp. I’ve see this and other similar examples from plenty of level 60s in high end camps.

[aaezil]

Originally Posted by Menden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't be a douche, it's pretty simple.

Don’t be a douche is far from the only rule here and more confusion/petitions/suspensions will spread by just saying that instead of providing more clear/specific/easy to find rules.

You shouldnt have to dig in a forum for 20 minuts reading through how ac or sf or tranix or lucan camps work - you should be able to know how they work by reading one pinned rules post. This is curently not the case.

[katrik]

Originally Posted by aaezil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don’t be a douche is far from the only rule here and more confusion/petitions/suspensions will spread by just saying that instead of providing more clear/specific/easy to find rules.

You shouldnt have to dig in a forum for 20 minuts reading through how ac or sf or tranix or lucan camps work - you should be able to know how they work by reading one pinned rules post. This is curently not the case.

This. There needs to be a change. It would eliminate so much headache for the mods here.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by katrik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This. There needs to be a change. It would eliminate so much headache for the mods here.

Its not a new discussion, but my opinion on it has always been:

If you make fixed "code-law" like rules then folks who are jerks will (still) find a way to make loop holes to get around the rules, only now the GMs will have their hands tied by the rules.

We're better off now with GMs able to look at the general rules and apply them to the specific instance that they are mediating.

I do agree that the current system is a bit scatter-shot spread over several threads and posts by devs/GMs for the last seven years. Re-organizing and consolidating (not changing) the posting of the rules would prob be a help to new players...but its a free emu, I'm not going to tell someone to work on this for my free entertainment.

I'd also agree that some camps (the ones that are the most popular that a majority of players at some time in their EQ play will encounter. things like AC, stormfeather, some epic bits, key bits, etc.) could also do with single consolidated post of existing information (not new information)...but again, its a free emu, not a paid game...I'm entitled to nothing.

Personally, I'm very suspicious of players that clamor for specific rules. From a gaming perspective, I cannot think of a single game that I've ever played that the "rules lawyer" has made better. They've existed in every game I've ever played (from pen and paper rpgs to board games to mmos...and from time to time I have regrettably taken that role too). In most games it becomes toxic.