RIP Chester Bennington

[loramin]

People do not kill themselves without compounding factors. Either your brain is physically sick, or it was broken by the environment (eg. being gay in a town where everyone hates gays). Suicide is a symptom of mental illness, the same way your face freezing is a symptom of a stroke.

Chester, Robin Williams, Marilyn Monroe, and almost all other famous suicide victims obviously had nothing immediate in their life causing depression: that basically guarantees that they either had a mental illness or had such a troubling childhood that they were damaged beyond repair.

Either way, we should feel sorry for them the same way we feel sorry for a cancer victim: both die because of an illness (and in both cases it's an illness that can either be inherited or gained through shit that happened to you in life). It's not "their choice", because by definition if your brain (the thing making choices) isn't working properly then you obviously can't make a true choice.

[fash]

I agree. Suicide victims have no agency.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by fash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree. Suicide victims have no agency.

Can't tell if this is flippant or serious, but in case it's the former I'll just put it like this: where does agency come from? The brain right? And the brain is just an organ, the same as your heart or lungs.

If your lungs aren't working properly because you're sick or because you're drowning, you can't breath. No one blames lung cancer victims for having trouble breathing.

Similarly, if the organ responsible for making choices isn't working properly then you're going to have less agency, just like someone with a collapsed lung has less breath. Blaming someone for dying from a mental illness just means you are denying that the brain is an organ which can get sick the same as your heart or lungs.

[maskedmelonpai]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can't tell if this is flippant or serious, so I'll just put it like this: where does agency come from? The brain right? And the brain is just an organ, the same as your heart or lungs.

If your lungs aren't working properly because you're sick or because you're drowning, you can't breath. No one blames lung cancer victims for having trouble breathing.

Similarly, if the organ responsible for making choices isn't working properly then you're going to have less agency, just like someone with a collapsed lung has less breath. Blaming someone for dying from a mental illness is as stupid as blaming someone for dying from a physical illness.

this a interesting perspective. i question though how many have impaired decision making. it a matter of perspective. they just got a particularly dismal one and one that not easily righted.

it a very good point that if you brain not working you have less agency. this a point lotta people just don't get. hurr willpower! if you not in control you thoughts it difficult to direct you action. I not thoughts about it with regard to suicide though. gonna hafta think on it more.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by maskedmelonpai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it a very good point that if you brain not working you have less agency. this a point lotta people just don't get.

This right here.

Healthy minded people can't grasp or understand that someone dealing with mental illness simply lack the cognition and thinking process of a healthy/normal brain so making clear logical decisions is quite difficult when mentally ill.

that's this whole conversation in a nutshell too.

People that have never gone through it, or not known someone who has gone through mental illness will struggle to empathize with the actions of someone that is mentally ill.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can't tell if this is flippant or serious

he's being flippantly trollish.

[Cecily]

You're making a lot of noise suggesting sucide means a mentally ill brain and not accounting for it being a respectable, logical choice. It was a decision, most probably mulled upon for years and finally happened. Oh he was mentally ill takes away from whatever shred of dignity remains to the person. If you aren't suicidal and can't relate, pigeonholing someone as mentally ill makes sense, but that's crazy. Bunch of people with no idea what they aren't talking about.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're making a lot of noise suggesting sucide means a mentally ill brain and not accounting for it being a respectable, logical choice. It was a decision, most probably mulled upon for years and finally happened. Oh he was mentally ill takes away from whatever shred of dignity remains to the person. If you aren't suicidal and can't relate, pigeonholing someone as mentally ill makes sense, but that's crazy. Bunch of people with no idea what they aren't talking about.

Danke.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're making a lot of noise suggesting sucide means a mentally ill brain and not accounting for it being a respectable, logical choice. It was a decision, most probably mulled upon for years and finally happened. Oh he was mentally ill takes away from whatever shred of dignity remains to the person. If you aren't suicidal and can't relate, pigeonholing someone as mentally ill makes sense, but that's crazy. Bunch of people with no idea what they aren't talking about.

Yeah you right, I am sure he was thinking logically and of quite sound mind when he did it.

He had a history of mental illness that was documented, but I am sure in this particular incident he was thinking quite clearly and was feeling really healthy and normal. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You poked fun at his death, ridiculed people that enjoy his music, and now I am supposed to try to take your contradictory post seriously and believe you write it in an attempt to have a logical adult conversation about this topic?

Nah.

You just being a disrespectful nasty little troll. I think trolling is fine but not when you do it with disrespectful comments making light of a situation that others are deeply affected by such as this one.

Not cool, dude.

[Pokesan]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah you right, I am sure he was thinking logically and of quite sound mind when he did it.

He had a history of mental illness that was documented, but I am sure in this particular incident he was thinking quite clearly and was feeling really healthy and normal. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You poked fun at his death, ridiculed people that enjoy his music, and now I am supposed to try to take your contradictory post seriously and believe you write it in an attempt to have a logical adult conversation about this topic?

Nah.

You just being a disrespectful nasty little troll. I think trolling is fine but not when you do it with disrespectful comments making light of a situation that others are deeply affected by such as this one.

Not cool, dude.

based on previous comments and demographics, it's a safe bet Cecily is better acquainted with the topic than you. Dismissing her as a troll isn't helpful or useful.