Charming Misconceptions

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by fash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Keep up double runes and develop some situational awareness so charm breaks don't have time to land multiple rounds on you.

Runes do not block stuns, if a stun lands on you on that first round from the pet, you will take more melee rounds from him, even if you think very highly of your chanting skills.

Your fastest stun takes 1 second to cast - a high level hasted pet has well under 1 second delay between melee rounds.

Bedlam + Rune V is 950 hp. If your pet quads for 180 or more, thats one round from your pet and its target. 0,5 seconds later, your pet is eating through your HP, while you are just starting to cast your stun (which can be resisted, interrupted, or you can get summoned again if your pet and target are both summoners).

If you aren't charming because you think the group is subpar, you're just making the group worse.

Sure, crack, haste and CC makes a subpar group worse.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Runes do not block stuns, if a stun lands on you on that first round from the pet, you will take more melee rounds from him, even if you think very highly of your chanting skills.

Your fastest stun takes 1 second to cast - a high level hasted pet has well under 1 second delay between melee rounds.

Bedlam + Rune V is 950 hp. If your pet quads for 180 or more, thats one round from your pet and its target. 0,5 seconds later, your pet is eating through your HP, while you are just starting to cast your stun (which can be resisted, interrupted, or you can get summoned again if your pet and target are both summoners).






Sure, crack, haste and CC makes a subpar group worse.

Does ogre illusion grant fsi? I rarely see a blob enc, but perhaps it is worth it?

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does ogre illusion grant fsi? I rarely see a blob enc, but perhaps it is worth it?

Don't think it does, though I never tested it thoroughly.

Also when you get summoned, the mob kinda has your back - double backstab for 700+ from named spiders in Velk immediately upon summon are a painful proof.

[Pyrion]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does ogre illusion grant fsi? I rarely see a blob enc, but perhaps it is worth it?

I tested it recently, it does not grant fsi unfortunately.

[Darkatar]

Originally Posted by Pyrion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I tested it recently, it does not grant fsi unfortunately.

Ogre's don't lose FSI while illusioned, thankfully.

[Lowako]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Runes do not block stuns, if a stun lands on you on that first round from the pet, you will take more melee rounds from him, even if you think very highly of your chanting skills.

Your fastest stun takes 1 second to cast - a high level hasted pet has well under 1 second delay between melee rounds.

Bedlam + Rune V is 950 hp. If your pet quads for 180 or more, thats one round from your pet and its target. 0,5 seconds later, your pet is eating through your HP, while you are just starting to cast your stun (which can be resisted, interrupted, or you can get summoned again if your pet and target are both summoners).





Sure, crack, haste and CC makes a subpar group worse.

Apologizing in advance for a disorganized post that rambles on as I'm quite tired, but I think I convey my point pretty well.

If you have a shitty, slow killing group, charming a pet is usually going to be better than hasting your shitty group members. Also, you can position your character in a way so that you can start casting stun/mez before your pet gets back into melee range of you. Even if you charm summoning stuff in a group, you just have to make an effort to not let your pet tank stuff to avoid putting it in summoning range.

The reason why people see charming as mandatory these days is because even a mediocre charmed pet is worth like 2 monks/rangers/shitty rogues worth of DPS, or greater than or equal to 1 Good Rogue's worth of DPS. To call a charmed pet a marginal benefit in a 6 man group is a massive understatement. Lets look at a theoretical situation for a typical group. You have 6 people, a Warrior, 2 Rogues, a Cleric, an Enchanter, and a Monk that is pulling. Lets assume the rogues are buffed and have epic, and the combined DPS of the warrior and pulling monk combined is worth about 1 buffed epic rogue of DPS. Your group is doing on average, 3 Good Rogues worth of DPS. Add a charmed pet to that mix, now you'll have roughly 4 Good Rogues worth of DPS. Thats a 33% increase to your groups kill speed. I wouldn't call that a marginal gain, and that is in a pretty high DPS group.

Lets look at another theoretical group. One that isn't quite as optimized. You have an SK tank, a cleric, a non-epic Rogue, a Ranger, an enchanter, and a Monk that is pulling. Oh no, this group of players lacks key items like epics to help them deal damage, or naturally does less damage because of their class. It's not unreasonable to assume that this group is only going to do 2 Good Rogues worth of DPS. Add a charmed pet to this clown fiesta of adventurers who consider wooden cooking spoons viable weaponry and now you have 3 Good Rogues worth of DPS. That's a 50% boost to your groups kill speed. That's a pretty big deal.

An enchanter with no charmed pet adds about 1 group member worth of value. An enchanter with a charmed pet adds about 2-3 group members worth of value. If you're only bringing half potential to a group, people most likely won't want to group with you in the future regardless of the class you play. An enchanter that keeps their group buffed, maintains a charmed pet, and helps deal with adds isn't some kind of myth or feat that requires superhuman play. People have used charm pets solo and in groups at every level range to great effect.

side note, if your puller is consistently training your group with 4+ mobs you need to tell them to stop being a walking trash bin and bring in singles/doubles.

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by Lowako [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

side note, if your puller is consistently training your group with 4+ mobs you need to tell them to stop being a walking trash bin and bring in singles/doubles.

Again, it is situational. If your puller is a warrior he'll bring what he can. In many many spots, bringing a few at a time will actually do good to the exp rate as your camp will always have something to kill, no need to sit around waiting for the puller to run back.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, it is situational. If your puller is a warrior he'll bring what he can. In many many spots, bringing a few at a time will actually do good to the exp rate as your camp will always have something to kill, no need to sit around waiting for the puller to run back.

Yea, this is definitely a taste issue. Some enchanters thrive on a full camp, others like 3 mobs in camp (pet, MA target and third mob to mez/root/tash/preslow). There are many variations.

Of course some like to afk and refresh haste/c every 15 mins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

[branamil]

Originally Posted by Lowako [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

side note, if your puller is consistently training your group with 4+ mobs you need to tell them to stop being a walking trash bin and bring in singles/doubles.

Constructive points all around.

Only quoting this point because I've seen otherwise, we had a decked out group
In Karnors basement, with insane melee dps, i think it was 2 epic rogues, and the place to ourselves, could pull any camp we wanted. I was basically casting AoE mez nonstop, it was just faster. We didn't really need to split.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by branamil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Only quoting this point because I've seen otherwise, we had a decked out group
In Karnors basement, with insane melee dps, i think it was 2 epic rogues, and the place to ourselves, could pull any camp we wanted. I was basically casting AoE mez nonstop, it was just faster. We didn't really need to split.

Yeah, this is actually what a competent Enchanter wants. Splitting is dumb and takes too long. There's CC in the group for a reason.