Game Mechanics: MELEE PROBLEMS (Mob hit rate, # max hits, etc etc)

[darnzen]

Have a lvl 22 war ~ 950 hp, kind of crappy ac (ringmail mostly). Descent weapons (Jambiya + PGT, also Obsidian Flamberge). I also played a war on live in 1999. My opinions on the matter:

1. My hit %, crit %, proc rate, all seem to match what I had on live, at least since "fix"

2. Mobs beat the poo outta me, and rarely miss. In the original game it felt like if you fought mobs of same class & level (goblin warrior for instance), it was a very even match at least low to mid-levels (< 30). It would basically come down to luck on who would win. On the project 1999 server, there is zero chance the PC would win after level 10 or so. It seems mobs can use abilities MUCH more often (2x?) than players. Their hit rate and damage much higher as well.

3. Taunt is still broken. Possibly because pets and spellcasters significantly out damage warriors, but I can't keep aggro even from monks / rogues. On live, it was tricky, especially end game because the damage difference was huge, and you needed to make up for it with hate proc weapons. It was also tricky when fighting yellow or red cons. But I can't keep mobs on me fighting greens, light blues, etc. Early game I wrote it off to low taunt skill, but at level 23, with taunt maxed, I still feel gimped. Basically there's almost no point to having a warrior in the group if they can't do damage, and they can't hold agro. Right now it is virtually impossible to pull a mob off a chanter or healer.

[entilza]

Classic was all about being careful about mob agro thats what was awesome, so far I have seen the action of mobs quite good.

Everyone will soon learn not to over agro a mob too early etc.. I think people will re-learn slowly.

Plus warriors aren't running around twinked with super weapons so thats a big difference as well.

Also sometimes casters when you get your new spell line you don't need to use your super new spell right away to cause super agro.. Sometimes the magic is overpowered for the level range at the time.

[President]

So I noticed something yesterday when playing but I don't know if it was coincidence or what.

I'm level 19, fighting in Mistmoore, and my dual wield/double attacks are few and far between. Although my DPS isn't as bad as it was before the fix, it wasn't happening often.

I ding 20, and my skills start to go over 100. I'm getting to 102/103/104 and my double attack/dual wield start going crazy. I'm literally smacking the mob 4 times every 30ish seconds when I had rarely seen it once a fight before hand.

I dunno if 100 skill is some "hump" or what, but I definitely noticed a difference.

[Naerron]

i have a lvl 17 twink warrior, has 750 HP unbuffed, two obsid shards and about 400 AC. here is my 2 cp.

First off, AC does NOTHING. It sucks, even on my 37 mage, i can get destroyed by greens because dodge and AC does nothing. At around lvl 30 i thought i'd go own up CB, oddly enough i send my pet in to kill a lego in TR and the whole room agros me, which is weird as hell. Then my pet gets owned, then i get owned at lvl 30 in crush bone, i blushed so hard all the way back to my corpse. BUt lvl 12ish greens should not be hitting a lvl 30 for max dmg over and over again, or even really hitting him at all. i know there are many emu severs with this problem, also i know that SoA ( Scars of Amerous) has working AC.

Second. I seem to be able to solo yellows and whites fine when im procing a ton and can keep soloing with bind wound, however every once in ahwile a mob will just kick my ass, i will be 100% health and almost die.

THird) while im tanking i notice mobs hitting for max nearly every time, also i notice my warrior hitting for max way more than he should.

[sever]

I tested just how low of a mob will start max hitting and landing frequent attacks on me (50 war/800ac). I started with blackburrow and things were normal there. My combat log was full of their misses/my dodges/parries/ripostes. I then moved to south karana since there's a wide variety there and I thought i'd crack Quillmane. I started with the level 20ish Bull Elephants and they were fine.

I then tried a level 30ish cyclops and he broke the system again. He was green, and hit for 63 every other hit, rarely missing. I figured it was the high str value of giants that did it, and so I moved on to a werewolf. He hit for 40s every other hit, and had incredible accuracy.

While tanks may take enough damage to make the game difficult (meaning you need solid healers to keep the tough camps going) there's still a loop in how well ac scales, and how well you avoid attacks. Adding a number of great gear pieces seems to do next to nothing to your benefit (and in classic, gear gets better very slowly).

My beef? The 49 pets tank better, and charmed enchanter pets tank far better. While you're probably looking at ac/avoidance scaling right now, these 2 should also be looked at, as it eliminates the need for a tank in a lot of current high level areas.

[sever]

I'd also like to add that some high level mobs are hitting for more than they should be. There are allakhazam threads that have mob damage values, for example:

- Imps in Solb by efreeti had a max of 122 (level 48 imp), while currently the the 43 imp hits for 134 and the 48 imp hits for 144

- LGuk:
-- Lord has a max of 125 (allakhazam lists it right on his info page) Currently he's hitting for mid 140s
-- Frenzied/BT Ghouls are supposed to hit for 120s as they did in classic, not the 129-13x now
-- Every ghoul from dar (melee)/kor(wizard) lines on up (39-42 or something), their damage doubles from their Zol cousin (Zol being something like 35-39, hits appropriately for 7x depending on level). Right now, Dar's are hitting for 129-13x and it just goes up. Kor wizards start at 122. That's as much as classic Lord. Boks/Guks/Jins are 13x-14x.
-- I don't know about live side frogs of similar levels, since I heard near King, the mobs ignore walls ><

This is all I've noticed so far. Challenging and exciting it may be, it makes tanks weaker and enchanters stronger (charm).

[Morndenkainen]

Originally Posted by President [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So I noticed something yesterday when playing but I don't know if it was coincidence or what.

I'm level 19, fighting in Mistmoore, and my dual wield/double attacks are few and far between. Although my DPS isn't as bad as it was before the fix, it wasn't happening often.

I ding 20, and my skills start to go over 100. I'm getting to 102/103/104 and my double attack/dual wield start going crazy. I'm literally smacking the mob 4 times every 30ish seconds when I had rarely seen it once a fight before hand.

I dunno if 100 skill is some "hump" or what, but I definitely noticed a difference.

I'd like to thank you for this post from a while ago Prez, it does seem that if there is an actual "hump", it validates the points in my thread... You are actually responsible for the post that might just prove it, and get it looked at and fixed afterall.

[Malrubius]

Interesting thread. I never noticed it months back when it was active.

Is this still bugged? I never played a melee in classic, and am trying one here. Were the above problems patched at some point or has there been any change?

[Aeolwind]

Yeah, most of the melee issues have been resolved. This thread dates back to almost release.

[Skeletonya]

Just my 2 copper...

It may not be classic to say, boost some of the classes in Project 1999 to make them generally balanced and playable, but it still the fair thing to do.

I see no reason not to balance them.

1. More class balance will allow more class diversity
2. Class diversity will mean more class specific drops for everyone. ( I.e. if everyone is a caster, theres a ton of competition for caster loot. )
3. Sony should have done it themselves, but were lazy as hell, and clearly didnt care.