In regards to monopolizing a spawn

[Ikon]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Saying they did it and actually doing it aren't the same. The only way EQ has ever prevented other players from being jerks to one another is to change content and design new content that made it hard or impossible to do it.

There was rare enforcement of policies resulting in some hard core offenders getting slapped, which already happens here. In fact, I feel look there is already much more enforcement here than there was on live.

You're kidding right? Whens the last time someone kill stole a mob you were camping? Happens very very rarely at least from 1 to 50. I'have never had a mob outright stolen. Why? Because there are already rules in regards to kill stealing that "prevent players being jerks". There are already a number of other rules on this server that are non-classic such as racing from zoneline, FTE messages, 1 hour grace periods that are all followed for the most part.

Given the above its pretty absurd to say players would have an inability to share spawns like they did on live. How difficult is that to understand if you've been at a camp for 24 hours and you have 3 loots on corpses and someone turns up its time to fucking leave or at least let them join you and roll on loot? Not very hard.

I think the crux of the matter is people like their 6 weeks of farming Hadden afk, or cockblocking the rest of the server in Fear and don't want to give that up. Its pretty pathetic given we're all likely old eq players and that'd put us in our late 30's and 40's. Time to grow up I think.

[Whirled]

Originally Posted by Ikon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're kidding right? Whens the last time someone kill stole a mob you were camping? Happens very very rarely at least from 1 to 50. I'have never had a mob outright stolen. Why? Because there are already rules in regards to kill stealing that "prevent players being jerks". There are already a number of other rules on this server that are non-classic such as racing from zoneline, FTE messages, 1 hour grace periods that are all followed for the most part.

Given the above its pretty absurd to say players would have an inability to share spawns like they did on live. How difficult is that to understand if you've been at a camp for 24 hours and you have 3 loots on corpses and someone turns up its time to fucking leave or at least let them join you and roll on loot? Not very hard.

I think the crux of the matter is people like their 6 weeks of farming Hadden afk, or cockblocking the rest of the server in Fear and don't want to give that up. Its pretty pathetic given we're all likely old eq players and that'd put us in our late 30's and 40's. Time to grow up I think.

I've encountered this problem also. Watching dozens of corpses lined up with their LORE items and yet they still camp XYZ to fund the addiction. The saddest part is when you try to reason with these individuals, they can't see passed their own greedy interests. The one time I decided to wait, tried to be social (didn't work too well from his stand point) but the dude straight up lied to me and said, he didn't get his drop. Moments later, his buddy ports in, they duel, he makes another corpse and continues to camp the item "he didn't get".
I think I laughed for an hour or so, but hey.. some people just wanna be a thorn in your side. As many have said already; THIS is why we cant have nice things. Some will just try to eek out more for themselves in any way, shape or form that they can.

[Lagaidh]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And keep in mind, rules like that didn't exist in a vacuum - P99 is a distant echo of PvE culture on live EQ, distorted to the point of near unrecognizability.

This is forgotten more often than not in ForumQuest 99.

[Ikon]

Originally Posted by Lagaidh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is forgotten more often than not in ForumQuest 99.

I don't think this is true though. Clearly what Gordon was describing back in 2000 is very similar to what is happening here. They implemented the PnP because the servers spawns, camps and "sometimes entire zones" were starting to become dominated by assholes who were permacamping and cockblocking everyone else.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Ikon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're kidding right? Whens the last time someone kill stole a mob you were camping? Happens very very rarely at least from 1 to 50. I'have never had a mob outright stolen. Why? Because there are already rules in regards to kill stealing that "prevent players being jerks". There are already a number of other rules on this server that are non-classic such as racing from zoneline, FTE messages, 1 hour grace periods that are all followed for the most part.

Given the above its pretty absurd to say players would have an inability to share spawns like they did on live. How difficult is that to understand if you've been at a camp for 24 hours and you have 3 loots on corpses and someone turns up its time to fucking leave or at least let them join you and roll on loot? Not very hard.

I think the crux of the matter is people like their 6 weeks of farming Hadden afk, or cockblocking the rest of the server in Fear and don't want to give that up. Its pretty pathetic given we're all likely old eq players and that'd put us in our late 30's and 40's. Time to grow up I think.

I'm not kidding. You can't force people to be nice by making a rule---it doesn't work.

The reason you haven't had the majority of your mobs stolen from you is because the majority of players are relatively normal decent folks and not jerks. The ones that enjoy being jerks will do it regardless of the rule...most of them will even do it regardless of suspension and ban and just re-roll.

The whole issue is moot. You posted an old dev post as evidence as to how people behaved (GMs and players) on live. That isn't evidence that the GMs actually successfully enforced play nice policies on live. The only thing that your post proves is that a dev made a post regarding a change in policy.

[Ikon]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not kidding. You can't force people to be nice by making a rule---it doesn't work.

The reason you haven't had the majority of your mobs stolen from you is because the majority of players are relatively normal decent folks and not jerks. The ones that enjoy being jerks will do it regardless of the rule...most of them will even do it regardless of suspension and ban and just re-roll.

The whole issue is moot. You posted an old dev post as evidence as to how people behaved (GMs and players) on live. That isn't evidence that the GMs actually successfully enforced play nice policies on live. The only thing that your post proves is that a dev made a post regarding a change in policy.

Successfully or not they implemented it and it was classic. I can however post that if you like. Was reading post-PNP stuff from Gordon while the server was down.

From what I read PNP both was successful but as usual there were gripes about it - it allowed players to share spawns but there was a bit of whinging that people who were duoing or soloing camps were forced to allow people to join their groups and therefore had less experience...

So apparently you can force people to play nice. Like me to link it?

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Ikon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Successfully or not they implemented it and it was classic. I can however post that if you like. Was reading post-PNP stuff from Gordon while the server was down.

From what I read PNP both was successful but as usual there were gripes about it - it allowed players to share spawns but there was a bit of whinging that people who were duoing or soloing camps were forced to allow people to join their groups and therefore had less experience...

So apparently you can force people to play nice. Like me to link it?

Yes.

Post your evidence that a post made 16 years ago actually improved the game. If there were any actual reliable metrics that could substantiate your assertion I highly doubt they would have been made public by the CS team. But, I'd like to see what you think constitutes evidence of your claim.

[Ikon]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes.

Post your evidence that a post made 16 years ago actually improved the game. If there were any actual reliable metrics that could substantiate your assertion I highly doubt they would have been made public by the CS team. But, I'd like to see what you think constitutes evidence of your claim.

Here you go, entire 3 page post on it. It clearly was implemented and enforced. There are whines however the general consensus is it helped ensure everyone was entitled to content.

The majority of the whines appear to be people not understanding they don't own camps or spawns and an inability to want to share experience loot with others.


https://web.archive.org/web/20000815...ML/004652.html

The Play Nice Policies were created because a growing number of customers were being subordinated by other, more powerful, groups of players. These other groups would claim "ownership" of spawns, loot drops, and even entire zones, refusing to allow other people a chance to experience them. On some servers, guilds had certain areas camped 24x7.

The play nice policies, in regards to spawns and camping, are designed to promote equal access to the areas. If a group can get into a room, they have as much right to be there as anyone else. Are the policies perfect? No, of course what is? No matter what policy we adopt, there will be people who are helped by the policy, and others that are hurt. Sometimes the policy may help them in one instance and hurt in another.

As I've mentioned in the past, if anyone has any ideas for policies that are easy to understand, are enforcable, do not require a larger CS team than before or after the Play nice policies, and will please everyone, I'd be happy to discuss them. - Gordon

https://web.archive.org/web/20000815...vault.ign.com/

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Ikon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here you go, entire 3 page post on it. It clearly was implemented and enforced. There are whines however the general consensus is it helped ensure everyone was entitled to content.

The majority of the whines appear to be people not understanding they don't own camps or spawns and an inability to want to share experience loot with others.


https://web.archive.org/web/20000815...ML/004652.html


https://web.archive.org/web/20000815...vault.ign.com/

Yes. I'm not sure what you think this proves. PNPs were part of EQ (they are also already part of p99). I'm not even sure what change from live you are suggesting be implemented here. Maybe if you said it specifically it would make more sense. The PNP on p99 is already more forum-lawyered and fleshed out than it was on live imo.

There is no evidence in anything you posted that people stopped being jerks to each other after the summer of 2000 due to a policy change. They added rules that the majority of players kept most of the time (just like we already have here).

[Ikon]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes. I'm not sure what you think this proves. PNPs were part of EQ (they are also already part of p99). I'm not even sure what change from live you are suggesting be implemented here. Maybe if you said it specifically it would make more sense. The PNP on p99 is already more forum-lawyered and fleshed out than it was on live imo.

There is no evidence in anything you posted that people stopped being jerks to each other after the summer of 2000 due to a policy change. They added rules that the majority of players kept most of the time (just like we already have here).

I believe what you are experiencing is extreme bias causing you an acute inability to comprehend the obvious, there is no external cure I can provide since its a self inflicted disease that only you can remedy. Have a nice one [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]