MIN/MAXING A ROGUE'S GLOVE SLOT

[Jimjam]

from live, don't know if it exists here:

Now we move onto rogues. If you are a rogue and you are above level 30 and your 'Functional Agility' is greater than 75 you get AC bonuses! They are broken down more easily as an equation than in words:

LevelScaler = PlayerLevel - 26

If Agility < 80: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 1) / 4

If Agility < 85: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 2) / 4

If Agility < 90: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 3) / 4

If Agility < 100: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 4) / 4

If Agility >= 100: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 5) / 4

If ACBonus > 12: = 12

This adds on to your worn, not avoidance AC. Obviously not a hugely meaningful amount but it existed).

[EdTuBrutus]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

from live, don't know if it exists here:

Now we move onto rogues. If you are a rogue and you are above level 30 and your 'Functional Agility' is greater than 75 you get AC bonuses! They are broken down more easily as an equation than in words:

LevelScaler = PlayerLevel - 26

If Agility < 80: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 1) / 4

If Agility < 85: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 2) / 4

If Agility < 90: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 3) / 4

If Agility < 100: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 4) / 4

If Agility >= 100: ACBonus = (LevelScaler * 5) / 4

If ACBonus > 12: = 12

This adds on to your worn, not avoidance AC. Obviously not a hugely meaningful amount but it existed).

You had said it was a bonus at 99, using these maths it's not. At L60 they are capped at 81 Agility ((34*2)/4)= 17 > 12. The mechanic is idiotic enough to be believable as something which was implemented by the EQ Devs.

I would love to have some of the original Devs explain what they intended stats to actually do. It just seems to be a glaring screw up, or that they didn't understand how their own melee mechanic worked. There had to be SOME sort of intention for stats to be meaningful, afterall there is the entire Disempower Line of SHM spells (not to mention the idiotic Rage Line).

If the intention was that stats should be a small bonus for end level, fair enough. But that doesn't actually tally with a game which has the Haste and Slow mechanics, especially with the absolute power they gave to Slow and the bug they never fixed with Haste). A lot of the imbalances can usually be explained by the moronic focus of the game on PvP before launch, but this isn't one of those - Haste and Slow are as imbalanced in PvP as PvE.

[Jimjam]

If we are going to be pedants I said the agi needed for max bonus was over 100, and you do get the bonus at 100+, even if at lvl 60 the bonus is the same as at 81 agi. At lower levels 81 isn't enough to cap out!

You said no bonus at all after 75, but as the maths shows there is a bonus after 75 for rogues as 81 is a higher number than 75 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. /pedantry

It's obvious to me that in classic devs did their best to make gear largely unimportant (tiny gains for +stats until the highest levels, pretty low AC hard caps going up to level 50, even the best ratio weapons before dragons (which weren't itemised at release) were not that much better than fine steel and so on). Unfortunately the Devs realised people were complete pixel addicts so tried to make stats rain from the dragons/planes/kunark onwards, even though the fundamental mechanics of the game were against this.

[EdTuBrutus]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If we are going to be pedants I said the agi needed for max bonus was over 100, and you do get the bonus at 100+, even if at lvl 60 the bonus is the same as at 81 agi. At lower levels 81 isn't enough to cap out!

You said no bonus at all after 75, but as the maths shows there is a bonus after 75 for rogues as 81 is a higher number than 75 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. /pedantry

Well pedantically its 81 at 54 and 91 at 46. However, that was never my point and you're misunderstanding what i meant. The basic premise is still the case. Once Agi is 75, you can forget about it.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's obvious to me that in classic devs did their best to make gear largely unimportant (tiny gains for +stats until the highest levels, pretty low AC hard caps going up to level 50, even the best ratio weapons before dragons (which weren't itemised at release) were not that much better than fine steel and so on). Unfortunately the Devs realised people were complete pixel addicts so tried to make stats rain from the dragons/planes/kunark onwards, even though the fundamental mechanics of the game were against this.

That may be part of it. But it still doesn't explain why Slow and Haste (especially Haste as it could be obtained from items) were so devastatingly effective.

[Jimjam]

Just because I made a point of interest about a minor "big whoop [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]" technicality you may not previously known about does not mean I misunderstood nor disagree with the premise that agility over 75 is unimportant...

[vouss]

A lot of the imbalances can usually be explained by the moronic focus of the game on PvP before launch, but this isn't one of those - Haste and Slow are as imbalanced in PvP as PvE.

?

[skarlorn]

quick update, borgnach now wears Sporali gloves. thanks for checking in.

[Samoht]

Are you not familiar with min/maxing? It's even in the title of this thread. It means doing everything you can to increase the power of your character, even when the difference is small. Ultimately, there is still a difference because a lot of small differences eventually mean a significant difference.

As a result, STR is beneficial to a Rogue.

Just like wearing a separate haste item from your epic is beneficial as of right now because epic haste is bugged on P99 and not correctly affecting the timer on special attacks.

You might look at it and say "it only negligibly affects backstab damage and doesn't affect auto attacks, so I'm not going to invest money in a separate haste item." Well then you're not a min/maxer, even though wearing separate haste would be beneficial.

Just like STR is beneficial to a Rogue.

[EdTuBrutus]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you not familiar with min/maxing? It's even in the title of this thread. It means doing everything you can to increase the power of your character, even when the difference is small. Ultimately, there is still a difference because a lot of small differences eventually mean a significant difference.

As a result, STR is beneficial to a Rogue.

Just like wearing a separate haste item from your epic is beneficial as of right now because epic haste is bugged on P99 and not correctly affecting the timer on special attacks.

You might look at it and say "it only negligibly affects backstab damage and doesn't affect auto attacks, so I'm not going to invest money in a separate haste item." Well then you're not a min/maxer, even though wearing separate haste would be beneficial.

Just like STR is beneficial to a Rogue.

You can't compare different things to try and prove your incorrect point.

The thread was started by a 23 Rogue, at every single stage of progression, AC is more valuable to a Rogue than Str. AC offers a meaningful, viable benefit at all levels while Str offers much less. The tiny benefit from huge amounts of Str is nothing compared to taking less damage when you are being hit, having the flexibility to tank or off tank without being hurt, being able to commence autoattack at the earliest moment without significant damage if the first Evade fails and the ability to solo efficiently up to high levels.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by EdTuBrutus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can't compare different things to try and prove your incorrect point.

The thread was started by a 23 Rogue, at every single stage of progression, AC is more valuable to a Rogue than Str. AC offers a meaningful, viable benefit at all levels while Str offers much less. The tiny benefit from huge amounts of Str is nothing compared to taking less damage when you are being hit, having the flexibility to tank or off tank without being hurt, being able to commence autoattack at the earliest moment without significant damage if the first Evade fails and the ability to solo efficiently up to high levels.

Now who is comparing something different to prove an incorrect point? The title of this thread includes the words "min/max." The point you're trying to make is that STR doesn't have enough value to you to quantify investing heavily into it. To everybody who is actually going to min/max, the stats they're going to invest in are STR/STA/HP/MR, because those are the most important stats to them, as a min/max rogue.

The point you're trying to make is completely off target. Quit bringing up red herrings.

STR has high value to a Rogue. If it doesn't have high value to you, you're just a bad Rogue.