MIN/MAXING A ROGUE'S GLOVE SLOT

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by EdTuBrutus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Stats in EQ are not meaningful. The combat mechanic makes very little reference to Stats. Stacking Str, Dex or Agi will not make a meaningful difference to how your character performs.

Well that's not true at all. As long as you are under the STR cap, raising your STR is going to raise your average hit and, more importantly as a Rogue, your average backstab which ultimately means more DPS.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not talking about agi increasing 'avoidance' AC, I'm talking about the rare instances it increases 'mitigation ac'. If you google EQ live dev posts about AC you will see they sometimes mention rogues, monks and beastlords get a class bonus to worn AC. Of course the rogue bonus isn't well known about; they aren't that interested in the mechanics of tanking and against many mobs (high or low level) 12 worn equivalent isn't going to make a difference.

Any amount of return that a Rogue has on AGI is still minimal at best. Do not stack AGI.

[EdTuBrutus]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well that's not true at all. As long as you are under the STR cap, raising your STR is going to raise your average hit and, more importantly as a Rogue, your average backstab which ultimately means more DPS.

You cannot change your modal hit. The increase to median hit is absolutely minimal for all melee which does not use Str in the mechanic which, as you say, is Backstab and IIRC one of the Monk special mobs. There is no mechanic for Str to impact WAR, PAL or SHD melee damage outside of the very very small impact of overdamage (commonly called the "str bonus").

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by EdTuBrutus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You cannot change your modal hit. The increase to median hit is absolutely minimal for all melee which does not use Str in the mechanic which, as you say, is Backstab and IIRC one of the Monk special mobs. There is no mechanic for Str to impact WAR, PAL or SHD melee damage outside of the very very small impact of overdamage (commonly called the "str bonus").

You're not right just because you mention other classes. This is a thread dedicated to Rogue stats in a subforum dedicated to melee DPS classes. This subset does not include WAR, PAL, or SHD.

STR is definitely a beneficial stat for Rogues. STR directly raises your attack power which directly raises your damage done, therefore STR raises your damage done.

The only caveat is that STR has a hard cap of 255, and any STR over 255 is obviously wasted.

[EdTuBrutus]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're not right just because you mention other classes. This is a thread dedicated to Rogue stats in a subforum dedicated to melee DPS classes. This subset does not include WAR, PAL, or SHD.

STR is definitely a beneficial stat for Rogues. STR directly raises your attack power which directly raises your damage done, therefore STR raises your damage done.

The only caveat is that STR has a hard cap of 255, and any STR over 255 is obviously wasted.

That is NOT how the mechanic works. The ATK you see on your character sheet has no meaning for the game. ATK has no influence on your To Hit. ATK has no influence on the damage per hit.

Str adds a small component to SOME hits which overall does add a very tiny amount of damage (from memory Steel Warriors put this somewhere around 1% for 100 Str). Rogues indeed get an extra benefit because the Backstab mechanic gets more from Str but you still don't get huge increases in DPS, even with massive increases in Str.

The whole "str increases attack power increases damage" has been debunked for 17 years. There is no reason for anyone to still think this way.

[skarlorn]

Got prof?

In my dream last night I had a str buff and was hitting for 30 with my burning rapier.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by EdTuBrutus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The whole "str increases attack power increases damage" has been debunked for 17 years. There is no reason for anyone to still think this way.

No it hasn't. You're actually the first person I've seen make such a claim since I started playing here five years ago. Here's a quote from Brad McQuaid in the year 2000 that contradicts everything you've claimed regarding STR.

Originally Posted by Brad McQuaid

STR: determines how much you can carry; influences maximum and average damage; influences how quickly you learn many offensive skills

Here is the link to read how STR works on P99.

Also, please read this for more information regarding the formula for backstab damage and how much it is greatly influenced by total STR. Tl;dr - You lose 100 damage on your max back stab if you're equipped with epic and only have 100 STR as apposed to 255 STR.

[EdTuBrutus]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No it hasn't. You're actually the first person I've seen make such a claim since I started playing here five years ago. Here's a quote from Brad McQuaid in the year 2000 that contradicts everything you've claimed regarding STR.



Here is the link to read how STR works on P99.

Also, please read this for more information regarding the formula for backstab damage and how much it is greatly influenced by total STR. Tl;dr - You lose 100 damage on your max back stab if you're equipped with epic and only have 100 STR as apposed to 255 STR.

Go re-read your links. Carefully this time. Then actually think about what it says.

I'll accept your apology when you return.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by EdTuBrutus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Go re-read your links. Carefully this time. Then actually think about what it says.

I'll accept your apology when you return.

This isn't the RNF forum. Please keep your conversation civil.

Also, you're not making any sense. At this point, the only person who owes an apology is you.

[EdTuBrutus]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This isn't the RNF forum. Please keep your conversation civil.

Also, you're not making any sense. At this point, the only person who owes an apology is you.

Ill give you a longer explanation then, please take the time to think about what I'm saying.

The EQ damage mechanic has two core mechanisms involved in determining your DPS from hits (let's just keep To Hit out of it as it has nothing to do with Str). When you hit, there is a significant number of Modal hits (the damage number that appears most often). And here's your first problem. The Modal damage is not changed AT ALL by Str.

Now secondly, the ONLY area where Str comes into play is in determining the Max Hit - the highest possible damage hit you can get. Str is used in the mechanic, it's outlined in the links you gave. But you only changed the MAX. The mechanic will then determine the actual value of the hit using RNG, Level, Skill, etc but NOT Str. The Modal damage has stayed the same (its the peak of the bell curve) and all you've done is stretch the curve to the right at a point when you're dealing with a small number of hits (unless your are fighting low level green mobs). Therefore, only a tiny number of hits are effected and the overall impact is small.

Statistically, what this means is that the Max Damage is not very important. Increases to your Max Damage (even quite significant ones) will not provide a meaningful increase in your DPS. It's just not how the melee damage mechanic works.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by EdTuBrutus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The EQ damage mechanic has two core mechanisms involved in determining your DPS from hits (let's just keep To Hit out of it as it has nothing to do with Str). When you hit, there is a significant number of Modal hits (the damage number that appears most often). And here's your first problem. The Modal damage is not changed AT ALL by Str.

Not according to Brad.

Originally Posted by EdTuBrutus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now secondly, the ONLY area where Str comes into play is in determining the Max Hit - the highest possible damage hit you can get. Str is used in the mechanic, it's outlined in the links you gave. But you only changed the MAX. The mechanic will then determine the actual value of the hit using RNG, Level, Skill, etc but NOT Str. The Modal damage has stayed the same (its the peak of the bell curve) and all you've done is stretch the curve to the right at a point when you're dealing with a small number of hits (unless your are fighting low level green mobs). Therefore, only a tiny number of hits are effected and the overall impact is small.

That's not how a bell curve works at all. You cannot just increase one end of it without adjusting the rest of the graph. The center point does move by raising the max.

Originally Posted by EdTuBrutus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Statistically, what this means is that the Max Damage is not very important. Increases to your Max Damage (even quite significant ones) will not provide a meaningful increase in your DPS. It's just not how the melee damage mechanic works.

But in the end, you do admit that there is an increase in DPS, and you just keep interjecting snide comments for the purpose of being rude on the Internet.

Also, all of this is further nullified by the fact that you keep focusing on auto attacks rather than backstabs, which have significantly increased damage from raising STR.