White people...

[Raev]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum

Why do you think "culturally/ethnically uniform" matters?

It matters a great deal. One of the most amazing books I have ever read is Mancur Olson's The Rise and Decline of Nations. He has one trivial point that he simply hammers home over and over again (with miserably dry prose, too) over a short book: democracy does not work. The problem is that special interests always win due to skewed incentives as taxpayers find it cheaper to pay them off than fight them off. The government will NEVER be on your side. It will always be on the side of the people with money and power.

Example A: Clinton (Bill version) removed Glass-Steagall and put Robert Rubin of Goldman Sachs in charge of regulating the banks. Result: the 2008 financial crisis and 14 trillion in off the record bailouts from the Fed. Now Hillary gives speeches to Wall Street (whose contents she will not divulge) for $500,000 a pop, and the Clinton Foundation gives approximately 5% of its proceeds to actual charities and is a de facto slush fund.

Example B: The military-industrial complex needs someone to fight now that the Cold War is over. So first we overthrow Qaddafi (not a nice guy to be sure) starting a massive civil war in Libya. Then we take his sarin gas and use it on Syrians so we have an excuse to invade there and help our ally Saudi Arabia (who probably funded the 9/11 attacks, but in an amazing show of bipartisanship Congress is blocking access to that section of the 9/11 report) get their pipeline to Europe. The result has been millions of people killed, but hey they are brown so I guess it doesn't matter, right?

Example C: Obama is pushing through the TTIP which allows US corporations to sue European governments (including Germany/Sweden which you tout as paradises) for loss of profits due to food safety laws. I'm sure Obama will somehow end up on the speech tour with Clinton and his own slush fund charity.

There is no such thing as democratic socialism. There is only capitalism, representing economic and political freedom, and totalitarianism, which takes it away. And we have the latter now.

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It matters a great deal. One of the most amazing books I have ever read is Mancur Olson's The Rise and Decline of Nations. He has one trivial point that he simply hammers home over and over again (with miserably dry prose, too) over a short book: democracy does not work. The problem is that special interests always win due to skewed incentives as taxpayers find it cheaper to pay them off than fight them off. The government will NEVER be on your side. It will always be on the side of the people with money and power.

Example A: Clinton (Bill version) removed Glass-Steagall and put Robert Rubin of Goldman Sachs in charge of regulating the banks. Result: the 2008 financial crisis and 14 trillion in off the record bailouts from the Fed. Now Hillary gives speeches to Wall Street (whose contents she will not divulge) for $500,000 a pop, and the Clinton Foundation gives approximately 5% of its proceeds to actual charities and is a de facto slush fund.

Example B: The military-industrial complex needs someone to fight now that the Cold War is over. So first we overthrow Qaddafi (not a nice guy to be sure) starting a massive civil war in Libya. Then we take his sarin gas and use it on Syrians so we have an excuse to invade there and help our ally Saudi Arabia (who probably funded the 9/11 attacks, but in an amazing show of bipartisanship Congress is blocking access to that section of the 9/11 report) get their pipeline to Europe. The result has been millions of people killed, but hey they are brown so I guess it doesn't matter, right?

Example C: Obama is pushing through the TTIP which allows US corporations to sue European governments (including Germany/Sweden which you tout as paradises) for loss of profits due to food safety laws. I'm sure Obama will somehow end up on the speech tour with Clinton and his own slush fund charity.

There is no such thing as democratic socialism. There is only capitalism, representing economic and political freedom, and totalitarianism, which takes it away. And we have the latter now.

Yea that's great and all -- but meanwhile Sweden has a much shorter work week, paid leave, free healthcare, education, their god damn economy is doing fine.

Germans work like average of 30-35 hours a week and get a job out of school (vocational for some, intellectual for others)

I'm not trying to completely ignore the point your making about the collective action problem. But you have to see that there are some real ground-level differences. These things can be changed in this country -- even if we will always be at least partially corrupt. I'm sure those countries I mentioned have people in convinced that everything is going to shit too.

And we start by changing peoples attitudes to overcome the heterogeneity problem you pointed out. And it is working -- if you look at the difference between millennials on racial attitudes vs their parents..and up the line.

[Raev]

The point is that democracy may kind of work for <10 million people with a homogeneous ethnicity, culture, and life view, but in a nation as large and diverse as the United States it will simply result in one special interest group horror after another, and that has been borne out by the past 20 years. When you say 'things can be changed in this country' I hope you are not suggesting we exterminate the Blacks, Mexicans, Jews, and Bankers? Well, no one cares about the Bankers.

I don't understand how you can witness the epic political failure we have here and keep saying 'but hey, it works over there'. Also I'm not sure it does work over there. Europe is a mess right now due to all of the immigration from Syria (you're welcome Europals). Germany is currently talking about restricting all of those socialist benefits to avoid the immigrants etc etc.

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The point is that democracy may kind of work for <10 million people with a homogeneous ethnicity, culture, and life view, but in a nation as large and diverse as the United States it will simply result in one special interest group horror after another, and that has been borne out by the past 20 years. When you say 'things can be changed in this country' I hope you are not suggesting we exterminate the Blacks, Mexicans, Jews, and Bankers? Well, no one cares about the Bankers.

I don't understand how you can witness the epic political failure we have here and keep saying 'but hey, it works over there'. Also I'm not sure it does work over there. Europe is a mess right now due to all of the immigration from Syria (you're welcome Europals). Germany is currently talking about restricting all of those socialist benefits to avoid the immigrants etc etc.

Your (and presumably the author's) argument doesn't ultimately make sense because you can't explain why things have gotten better for the working classes ever. Things have gotten better here over time. 8 hour work week etc. It is a defeatist attitude that there is nothing we can or ever can be done because of special interests. Just because multiple cultures makes progress slower doesn't mean it won't happen. Its not like universal healthcare stops working the minute you have a Black population -- its just less likely to get voted in. What I was suggesting is this video is part of a larger movement by people to reduce racial tensions. And it does with younger generations. But the problem is the old guard gets pissed and it temporarily increased tension. Whatever -- just another part of the long slow ass process.

We are better at assimilating people in this country than Europe. We are better at changing racial attitudes than Europe. Europe is better at getting the social safety net because they never had to deal with it this (and institutional reasons I wont get into). They aren't even now -- they are just gonna kick the Muslim population out or disclude them from benefits. Not that I think Discluding non-citizens from benefits is inherently bad policy.

You have a habit of thinking black in white. Killing millions of people, univserial healthcare, and raising taxes...all under the same umbrella of totalitarianism (although no political scientist would agree with you), and thus bad. You seem to imply Obama care 1) cannot possibly get better 2) is somehow the "same thing" as a single payer system, when it obviously isn't.

Power works in three cycles:

1) You lose in the decision-making process

2) The powerful in the situation block the issue from reappearing on the agenda. The powerless develop a defeatist attitude.

3) The powerful -- both intentionally and unintentionally create an ideological hegemony -- where the powerless adopt the values of the powerful.

Undoing this process is slow. And I think what we are starting to see is 3 unravel a bit in the states. This winner/loser pull yourself up by your bootstraps value is on its way out for those that don't benefit from it. It's matter of time before redistribution is on the agenda. And I'm not talking about some bs 3% tax hike on the amount you make over 250k a year. I mean closing loopholes, raising capital gains/social security cap etc. Hardly anyone agrees Romney should pay less than 15% while we fall behind on education, health, saving, and workforce skill.

[Tewaz]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The point is that democracy may kind of work for <10 million people with a homogeneous ethnicity, culture, and life view, but in a nation as large and diverse as the United States it will simply result in one special interest group horror after another, and that has been borne out by the past 20 years. When you say 'things can be changed in this country' I hope you are not suggesting we exterminate the Blacks, Mexicans, Jews, and Bankers? Well, no one cares about the Bankers.

Nothing really works at the population and ethnic diversity we currently have. If you step back and compare the poor in the US with other countries you realize how well America has done. Yes, there is a huge wealthy disparity gap at the top, but the middle class is bulging and you live better than a prince 100 years ago. Equality across the board is the ideal, but the current reality is pretty damn good, and it will continue to improve over the next 100 years.

[Raev]

Reading this, I think your thought process is just very muddled.

Things have gotten better in the US because we had a revolution and it's taken 200+ years for the special interest groups to finally sink us. Remember, the Federal Reserve is the 3rd Central Bank of the US. Twice the people kicked the bankers out, and so they finally succeeded by obfuscating the bill as much as possible. I hear Texas is talking about seceding. That is what we need: throwing out millions of pages of pointless Federal laws and then a government on a smaller scale where it's easier to hold politicians responsible.

How you think a video talking about 'white privilege' is somehow decreasing racial tensions is beyond me. How you consider the banks owning more and more of our government is progress is mind boggling.

Simply, I think your ideas about politics have no connection to reality.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Tewaz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, there is a huge wealthy disparity gap at the top.

You do realize that the 1%ers are doing as well as they are because of QE inflating the value of stocks and housing and so on beyond all reasonable measure, not some flaw in a market based economy, right?

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Reading this, I think your thought process is just very muddled.

Things have gotten better in the US because we had a revolution and it's taken 200+ years for the special interest groups to finally sink us. Remember, the Federal Reserve is the 3rd Central Bank of the US. Twice the people kicked the bankers out, and so they finally succeeded by obfuscating the bill as much as possible. I hear Texas is talking about seceding. That is what we need: throwing out millions of pages of pointless Federal laws and then a government on a smaller scale where it's easier to hold politicians responsible.

How you think a video talking about 'white privilege' is somehow decreasing racial tensions is beyond me. How you consider the banks owning more and more of our government is progress is mind boggling.

Simply, I think your ideas about politics have no connection to reality.

That's a very stange view of history. Everything was great black when only wealthy white males could vote (slave owners often) -- but then everything got screwed up by special interest....did it ever occur to you that slave holding was a special interest?

Again how do you explain unions getting the 8 hour work week if democracy only ever serves the interest of the powerful?

I g2g but let me just say...when you disagree with me. Your disagreeing with mainstream academic thought. Don't fool yourself into thinking I'm just making my own shit up.

[Scrapiron]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I g2g but let me just say...when you disagree with me. Your disagreeing with mainstream academic thought. Don't fool yourself into thinking I'm just making my own shit up.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because this 'mainstream academic thought' of which you speak couldn't possibly be wrong.

[Tewaz]

Raev can't see the forests through the trees.