Interesting old (but relevant) EQ web paper

[quellren]

Originally Posted by Henini [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and?

anyone that says after 2-3 nights in seb there is no more to see has some serious issues.

That's the problem with kunark.

I don't care who you are or what you have done. and if you been in seb you know what I'm talking about.

Since it isn't actually posted anywhere explicit:
Thott was an Officer (co leader?) of Afterlife, one of the most hardcore raid guilds on EQ. They and guilds like Fires of Heaven often claimed world firsts for many of EQ's most difficult mobs.
Most of the parsed data and theorycrafting about EQ mechanics that I've found on the net over the years comes from Thott.
Say what you want about his opinions, but the guy was anything but a 'never-made-it-to-max-level-newb'

[Henini]

I stand corrected, and I remember thott.

never the less, I stand by my opinion regarding kunark dungeons.

AND,

you can be killing dragons and gods and not have seen half the content in EQ.

you can be lvl 50 and never have set foot in a dungeon and be logging in only for raids like a lot of people do once they are max level. (or 60 or whatever the current cap is depending on erra)

and

cuz your an excelent strategist and your guild was #1 for a long time, doesn't mean you hold absolute truth over everything. you can still be wrong about stuff some times.

just like I was wrong about calling him a noob. he is wrong about kunark dungeons.

they are all much bigger then any in classic, and the ones in classic can still take a week to go and camp everything. just look at lower guk. between dead and live, you have a lil while before you have "seen it all".

solb , between kobolds/spiders/imps/fgs... don't come and tell me you camped it all in 3 days.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Henini [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and?

anyone that says after 2-3 nights in seb there is no more to see has some serious issues.

That's the problem with kunark.

I don't care who you are or what you have done. and if you been in seb you know what I'm talking about.

Word.

KC + Seb > Luclin imho

[quellren]

Originally Posted by Henini [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

reading this article , I couldn't help but thinking that guy never made it to 60 and probably not even to 55.
his point of views and comments are very "noobish"

2-3 days per dungeon?

c'mon there are more then 2-3 camps per dungeon first off.

you could spend a month in seb and still not have worn out the novelty of the place, cuz you go from one camp to an other, and it's so big.

sorry but 58+ doing reets and juggs, is really something the first couple of times. Even doing shroom king...

anyways...

You and Thott are kind of arguing the same thing from different points of view.

One major point of his Kunark Problem is that a player could feasibly level from 51 to 60 and never see any content other than that one dungeon. The very nature of exp grinding doesn't encourage exploration or really even doing anything other than the leveling treadmill. You pick out Sebilis, but I dont feel like Sebilis is indicative of Kunark. Karnors' is much more realistic, theres not a lot of variety in KC, its dogs, in some form, in some room, a small contingent of Undead, or the raid on VS.


I don't disagree with you that 2-3 days to 'completely use up a dungeon' may be off, but realistically, if in the example of SolB, you did Royals for 3 hours, then BnB for a while, then the next day got lucky and got in on some Fire Giants, you'd feel like you had a pretty solid handle on the place.

[mimixownzall]

Originally Posted by quellren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You and Thott are kind of arguing the same thing from different points of view.

One major point of his Kunark Problem is that a player could feasibly level from 51 to 60 and never see any content other than that one dungeon. The very nature of exp grinding doesn't encourage exploration or really even doing anything other than the leveling treadmill. You pick out Sebilis, but I dont feel like Sebilis is indicative of Kunark. Karnors' is much more realistic, theres not a lot of variety in KC, its dogs, in some form, in some room, a small contingent of Undead, or the raid on VS.


I don't disagree with you that 2-3 days to 'completely use up a dungeon' may be off, but realistically, if in the example of SolB, you did Royals for 3 hours, then BnB for a while, then the next day got lucky and got in on some Fire Giants, you'd feel like you had a pretty solid handle on the place.

And his arguement against, is my arguement FOR Kunark.

If someone wants to stay in one dungeon because he/she likes it so much, they can. I don't want the game to force me to go somewhere else. Someone wants to explore, they can. If I like KC and want to spend 12 hours a day there to get 60, I can.

A developer's job is to appease as many people as he can to make the game enjoyable for as many people as possible; I feel they had done that with Kunark (once all the whiners were done bitching about the jump in weapon quality).

[Rahnza]

idk I've definitely seen 100% of the content Classic - Velious.

[fugazi]

Kunark's problem was that too much good content was hidden .. and players werent actively encouraged to go out there and see it. Honorable mentions:
-Dalnir
-Mines of Nurga
-Temple of Droga

..and for any non-iksar, many of the outdoor zones such as Warslik Woods. Everyone huddled together in Sebilis and Karnor's Castle, probably because finding Chardok was too much for most peoples navigational skills.

Imagine how great Kunark would've been if the team had been a bit more experienced and had a more coherent vision. Oh god, I used the word vision, my bad ;D

[Sparkin]

Originally Posted by fugazi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Kunark's problem was that too much good content was hidden .. and players werent actively encouraged to go out there and see it.

One player's problem is another's solution. If I was designing an MMO, having lots of great hard to reach content that players actually have to work to find would be a main ideology. It makes the world more interesting.

[mimixownzall]

Originally Posted by fugazi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

..and for any non-iksar, many of the outdoor zones such as Warslik Woods. Everyone huddled together in Sebilis and Karnor's Castle, probably because finding Chardok was too much for most peoples navigational skills.

I think the main problem was that there wasn't really anything to draw people to Chardok. Our group went there to get a sheild from the entrance area for our druid; we got one and left. If they had more desirable drops, more people would have been there.

Honeslty, exept for that sheild, I cannot think of another item out of there =/

[Henini]

Chardok crawling is actually pretty fun, it's a nice zone to explore and exp in.

but yes, it's out of the way and not much drops there. you can totally avoid it if you just care about the number next to your exp bar.

just don't turn around saying kunark sucks because you didn't bother to take your time leveling and discovering the game.

No one will hold your hand to go and discover the world.

yes, in wow they take you by the hand and have you run around to click npc's for free exp. lots of people play wow. I think it's boring as fuck. there is also very little magic in it. I always called it the McD's of mmorpgs
lots of nice colors and happy meals, but very little taste. still, kids love it!