Creation Point Discussion

[Skope]

I was always under the impression that charisma was hard to max, but perhaps that might be kunark?

Either way i threw all the points i could into stam when making my necro, never regretted it and nor will i ever [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Something to keep in mind is that there are classes with exceptions. Shammies, particular soloing dragons for insane lewtz shammies, will never need more than 180 wis at endgame velious. Your cannibalize and torpor will couple for more than enough mana regen, and there's been countless threads discussing this (or at least that i remember reading on the old forums), stating that a point in stamina or +hp gear is more beneficial than a single point in wis.

Though with that said, you may still be better off throwing your points into wis at the start, not because you NEED 200 wis as a shaman in classic, but because you're allowed to focus on actual +hp/stam items rather than getting low AC/wis items in the expansions down the line.

[Weekapaug]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Imagine that as a rogue you spend 25 points in STR, thinking "hey, str is rogue main stat, i want more str." So, velious comes out and now you have 255 +10 str unbuffed. Badass right? Wrong. A lot of your gear is adding useless stats to your build. You can't even get the usefulness of shaman buffs anymore (which may please shamans, but is detrimental to your ability).

Great thread and I totally agree with your thinking as well of that of the other posters who suggest weighing long versus short term, but where rogues are concerned there may be a catch with this way of thinking.

The reason STR is the main stat for rogues is it is the stat that affects ATK. I may be sorely mistaken, but from what I read on a safehouse discussion years ago, "base" strength (as in the strength you have when you are standing naked) is calculated into ATK differently than STR from gear or buffs. According to the thread, a rogue with higher base STR will have higher ATK than another rogue with less naked STR in the same gear, buffed to cap, etc.

I was skeptical at the time, but the discussion seemed to have the nod of the resident experts, as I recall. I distinctly remember it though because I rolled my gnome rogue around PoP/LoY era when the popular consensus was that most classes should get anything important to 75 and then dump the rest into STA, which I did. When I read this thread some years later I happened to be knee deep in trying to eek out every bit of ATK at the time and I was kind of bummed about it considering my freaking STA was within 20-30 points of cap and I think I had only just started raiding.

Has anyone else ever heard of that? Or run into anything similar with another class? Like WIS with clerics, or STA with warriors?

[Weekapaug]

Oh, and in a similar vein to the OP's point...

I remember reading on The Steel Warrior at some point around Luclin/PoP era (give or take?) that dumping all points into CHA was a good idea for warriors because very little warrior raid gear had CHA on it until (I think) PoT or maybe even CoA. Apparently the CHA of the target affects weather Divine Intervention fires or not. This also gives high CHA race warriors like Wood Elves and Half Elves a leg up on the traditional Ogre main tank in some situations, basicly trading off frontal stun immunity for reliable DI, from what they were saying.

As I recall, DI is a kunark spell, so that could directly impact a lot of warriors here, no? I started raiding in Luclin content, so I have no idea, but I'm thinking of ultimately going with a warrior main, so this has been nagging at me a bit.

Anyone heard of this?

[Galanteer]

Originally Posted by Weekapaug [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh, and in a similar vein to the OP's point...

I remember reading on The Steel Warrior at some point around Luclin/PoP era (give or take?) that dumping all points into CHA was a good idea for warriors because very little warrior raid gear had CHA on it until (I think) PoT or maybe even CoA. Apparently the CHA of the target affects weather Divine Intervention fires or not. This also gives high CHA race warriors like Wood Elves and Half Elves a leg up on the traditional Ogre main tank in some situations, basicly trading off frontal stun immunity for reliable DI, from what they were saying.

As I recall, DI is a kunark spell, so that could directly impact a lot of warriors here, no? I started raiding in Luclin content, so I have no idea, but I'm thinking of ultimately going with a warrior main, so this has been nagging at me a bit.

Anyone heard of this?

Yea in PoP (and later) my guild had a wood elf warrior who put his points into charisma -worked quite well.

[Forelis]

Originally Posted by Weekapaug [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The reason STR is the main stat for rogues is it is the stat that affects ATK. I may be sorely mistaken, but from what I read on a safehouse discussion years ago, "base" strength (as in the strength you have when you are standing naked) is calculated into ATK differently than STR from gear or buffs. According to the thread, a rogue with higher base STR will have higher ATK than another rogue with less naked STR in the same gear, buffed to cap, etc.

I was skeptical at the time, but the discussion seemed to have the nod of the resident experts, as I recall. I distinctly remember it though because I rolled my gnome rogue around PoP/LoY era when the popular consensus was that most classes should get anything important to 75 and then dump the rest into STA, which I did. When I read this thread some years later I happened to be knee deep in trying to eek out every bit of ATK at the time and I was kind of bummed about it considering my freaking STA was within 20-30 points of cap and I think I had only just started raiding.

Has anyone else ever heard of that? Or run into anything similar with another class? Like WIS with clerics, or STA with warriors?

I'd swear I read that on monklybusiness 6 years ago too.

[Reiker]

The point is that +str is on tons of gear, especially stuff you're going to use ie. hooded black cloak. +Sta is a lot more rare, and this holds especially true in Kunark and Velious. Str is better short-term, Sta is better long-term.

[Chicka]

I think you really have to consider the road to the end game. Personally I would NOT want to level a cleric having put 20 points in sta and 5 in wis (untwinked). I did 20 wis and 5 sta, and frankly like every classic cleric before me struggled with mana pool for most of the road to 50.

[Hasbinbad]

Bump for teh nubz.

[Trude]

Titanium is installing now. I'll be creating my rogue in less than an hour. I'm glad I read this. Still a little torn between STR and STA though I have to say. Or in other words I'm still a little torn between playing this game hardcore 9 hours a day late into velious or just casually-ish enjoying Norrath again.

At least now I have a strong understanding of what my 2 most lucrative options are, and the advantages/disadvantages to both.

[shuklak]

It seems pretty specific to high enders that you'll easily max most important stats. However, I've always subscribed to the idea that if you max INT (or whatever is most important) then you can switch to gear that is more hp/mana/save friendly.

When it comes down to it, I don't think it ever matters that much. When you're level 35 the extra mana could save you. I see that as the best case scenario, but at the same time maybe some more stamina would save you in a different scenario.