Do Not Engage: Warriors Vs. PALs/SHDs

[Estu]

Originally Posted by Dr4z3r [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The extent to which the extra time matters depends 100% on how you're engaging the mob.

- If you plan to burn through it in 10 seconds and get on to the next mob/pull (exp group/trash in raids), then waiting 10 seconds for a warrior to build up aggro is obviously a very harsh impediment to your efficiency.

- If you're going to be fighting at dragon for the next 3-5 minutes (or more, depending), and losing a tank means that your entire raid wipes and you lose tons of time, or even lose your chance at the mob entirely, then waiting 10 seconds for a warrior to build aggro is barely noticeable.

Similarly, the longer you're fighting a mob, the more noticeable a 10-15% increase in unmitigated damage is going to be.

Paladins and SKs have great snap-threat generation, which makes them great for fights lasting 10 seconds, where the goal is to move to the next target ASAP: They throw down a debuff, take two or three hits and the mob's dead! But their damage-mitigation and max health are not on a level with warriors'.

That's why warriors are the premiere raid tanks: They're built to take damage.

Edit: Man, I never realized how well I learned tanking-theory raiding in classic WoW. I wasn't even a tank!

The impression I'm getting from this post in particular, but also the thread overall, is that warriors are only better tanks than SKs and PALs on raids, and comparable versus blue cons (I say comparable since the mob still gets pulled off, but you can taunt it back on before it does too much damage); otherwise, SKs/PALs are preferable. This is ignoring the 7% EXP penalty, though.

[Dr4z3r]

Originally Posted by Estu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The impression I'm getting from this post in particular, but also the thread overall, is that warriors are only better tanks than SKs and PALs on raids, and comparable versus blue cons

Exactly: The best tank class varies, depending on the situation.

It's almost like Verant did a good job at this! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Spewys]

Great thread.....

[Dantes]

The best tank is the one who's LFG and has the smallest distance to run to your camp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[SlankyLanky]

Originally Posted by Dantes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The best tank is the one who's LFG and has the smallest distance to run to your camp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i agree. ive never been turned away from a group because of the exp penalty i bring, hell what group doesnt have at least 1 hybrid in it?

[Lagaidh]

Originally Posted by SlankyLanky [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i agree. ive never been turned away from a group because of the exp penalty i bring, hell what group doesnt have at least 1 hybrid in it?

I've been duoing with my wife on p99 almost exclusively. I want us to stay the same level. I have been getting unsolicited tells to group every single time I've logged in for a week no matter how far away I am.

I must say. That's a refreshing thing for me. On the Rathe and Maelin Starpyre back in the day (99-05), I really can't recall that happening to me.

I hope folks don't quit trying to invite me [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I'll be accepting soon enough. Or if you have two spots, and we have the time, you get a PAL and a DRU.

[Randy]

Originally Posted by Dantes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The best tank is the one who's LFG and has the smallest distance to run to your camp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly. Each class is different and requires different strategies but all can be successful.

[guineapig]

From a cleric's point of view, the trade off is that although there is an exp penalty with a knight class (versus a warrior) the amount of damage being done to the rest of the group is limited to to the ease of which they can generate snap aggro.

This leads to less downtime for medding and more mobs being pulled per session. Pretty sure it all evens out.

Yes without hybrids in the group you can actually notice the difference on your exp bar but that exp bar does not show you how how much time downtime you had.

[knottyb0y]

I wanted to try to answer a few questions asked earlier in the thread

What is different in Kunark that makes Warriors so much better than now?

1. Gear Upgrades. Warrior gear in kunark is better over all. As far as weapons warriors have more weapons that deal higher dps (higher aggro then) and more aggro proccing weapons become more readily available. A warrior is only as good as his gear. Also there are more armor options in kunark that have a better AC, +HP, and +STR/DEX/STA stats on them that are warrior only, thus raising the mitigation gap between them and knights at high ends at the very least.

2. Taunt Fix. In Kunark taunt get's fixed (this affects knights too, but with spells they could always build aggro). This gives the warrior the ability to atleast snap back aggro when it is lost.

3. Mobs hit harder and have more HP. As previously stated the longer a fight goes the bigger the mitigation curve moves in favor of warriors.

These probably effect the warrior's tanking ability the most in groups and raid situations.

With this said, for an xp group a warrior or shadow knight or paladin can all tank fine. SK/Pal have the advantage of snap aggro and some utility. Warriors have more hp/ac and a little higher dps is equipped right. The formula is really as simple as that.

In raid situations after kunark the defensive discipline really is what makes warriors the end all be all of raiding (even more so than before just because of hp/ac). Defensive gives them such a boost in mitigation it makes many raid encounters possible at the very least easier.

These probably effect the warrior's tanking ability the most in groups and raid situations.

[Estu]

Originally Posted by knottyb0y [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wanted to try to answer a few questions asked earlier in the thread

What is different in Kunark that makes Warriors so much better than now?

1. Gear Upgrades. Warrior gear in kunark is better over all. As far as weapons warriors have more weapons that deal higher dps (higher aggro then) and more aggro proccing weapons become more readily available. A warrior is only as good as his gear. Also there are more armor options in kunark that have a better AC, +HP, and +STR/DEX/STA stats on them that are warrior only, thus raising the mitigation gap between them and knights at high ends at the very least.

2. Taunt Fix. In Kunark taunt get's fixed (this affects knights too, but with spells they could always build aggro). This gives the warrior the ability to atleast snap back aggro when it is lost.

3. Mobs hit harder and have more HP. As previously stated the longer a fight goes the bigger the mitigation curve moves in favor of warriors.

These probably effect the warrior's tanking ability the most in groups and raid situations.

With this said, for an xp group a warrior or shadow knight or paladin can all tank fine. SK/Pal have the advantage of snap aggro and some utility. Warriors have more hp/ac and a little higher dps is equipped right. The formula is really as simple as that.

In raid situations after kunark the defensive discipline really is what makes warriors the end all be all of raiding (even more so than before just because of hp/ac). Defensive gives them such a boost in mitigation it makes many raid encounters possible at the very least easier.

These probably effect the warrior's tanking ability the most in groups and raid situations.

Nice. Are SKs and PALs very unpopular in Kunark and Velious, then, or do they also have nice bonuses?