Respawn Dain after a failed Ring War

[Detoxx]

Originally Posted by Pan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...5&postcount=31

This thread: let's come up with a player-made agreement to exploit a bug.

This threads goal was to stop disasters from happening every time someone tried a ring war. Thats all. BDA, Forsaken, Rampage, Taken, Asgard are all guilty of going for an "exploited" Dain and when that happens, its a mess.

If the staff has no interest in fixing it, which is what i've seen so far, and the players are coming so close to winning it, why should we not continue to try? Yes, it may be un-winnable, but it also is not 100% impossible. Its not like anyone attempting these ring wars is turning in and letting it fail. They are giving their best shots and the last few attempts have been closer than ever.

[Pan]

Again, the answer is simple: don't exploit a bug. Irrespective of what the staff does or does not do.

[arsenalpow]

Just for the sake of argument, let's assume this doesn't get resolved anytime soon (for whatever reason) and we collectively decide to just sanction this crap, you're going to be left with a broken Thurgadin for hours at a time, every single day. That's not good for the rest of the server. Thurg is effectively the main hub for Velious and it will be overrun by giants constantly.

Additionally, staff can't be there everytime to save someone when mobs fall under the world. You bring a raid force, there's some ridiculous glitch, and then you lose. If you want to exploit this loophole fine, but don't create these absurd rules to determine a legit attempt from a fake attempt, it's all the same. It's being done to spawn a Dain. The result is guaranteed from the start regardless of how many people you bring. Just embrace that fact wholesale now.

[Llandris]

There's a fix pending*

[Pint]

If the staff dont want us attempting ring wars then they can post. Until then its crazy for our guilds to limit ourselves simply bc other guilds can't complete something.

[bktroost]

Can someone explain to me what content they are being denied by not having their tenth ring until the next patch goes into place? Is it some Viagra-like effect gained from saying we were the server's first to win the ring war?

If it's broken, then it's not to be done. If I was a gm and I KNEW that Dain shouldn't pop after a ring war and that a ring war was being done, I would go into Icewell and DT the mob.

#1 There is no reason to do the ring war other than gather data for a fix and that means having a gm present.
#2 If a GM is present then there is no reason for him not to kill Dain so a bug is not exploited (it has already been identified by a Dev to be a bug)
#3 Now that we have a fix pending patch there is absolutely no reason to do a ring war until that fix goes into place.

Am I missing some other piece of information?

[Pan]

The only point of this thread was to get guilds to agree to exploit broken content - specifically Dain.

I don't have an issue with anyone taking a swing at a broken or improperly tuned ring war as often as the possibility recycles. More power to you if you can figure out a way to beat that third wave.

I do have an issue with the staff doing nothing about guilds exploiting content that was acknowledged to be broken since the end of August (post-fail Dain).

I do have an issue with people agreeing to divvy up the fruits of content that shouldn't exist but only does due to a bug. Especially if I'm asked to buy in and buy off on that exploit. To virtually sign a contract agreeing to cheat.

I'd love to be able to take a swing at unlimited Dains in our high-population wheelhouse. But we don't consider it (nor do we consider buying in and off on this agreement) because it's clearly an exploit.

That said, if you're the kind of person who subscribes to the notions that:

If you're not cheating, you're not trying
It's not cheating if you don't get caught
It's not cheating even if you get caught but don't get punished

I can respect that on some level. That's who you are. That's how you approach life and the game.

Just to bring the lack of enforcement to the fore, I'd almost encourage you to spawn and kill serial Dains. As many and as often as you can.

And in parallel, I encourage the staff to rewrite the server and raid rules to more reflect reality. Here are some examples:

1. If you didn't fraps it, it didn't happen.
2. Q11: What about training away trash mobs?
A: This is acceptable, but if you choose to use this tactic, you must keep in mind that you are responsible for your trains/mobs. Meaning if your trainer dies, and the mobs go wipe another guild, that’s still training. BUT ONLY IF YOU GET CAUGHT. Otherwise you're clearly responsible for nothing.
3. Feel free to openly admit to exploiting broken content (see the precedent on Dain as a guide) without consequence.

And so on.

As it stands around here, those raiders who choose not to exploit/cheat/train/grief as a matter of course are at a significant disadvantage to those who do. And it would make for a lot more level playing field if the server rules actually reflected what the staff was interested in enforcing - whatever that is.

But until that happens, I see no reason to being drawn into a jackpot to agree to exploit broken content (post-ring Dains).

And until that or a fix happens, I see no reason why those whose only impetus to follow the rules of the server is to avoid punishment should not spawn and kill Dain at every opportunity. There's clearly no consequences historically.

We won't be signing the agreement. But we won't be in the way if you want to divvy up exploited content, either.

[Detoxx]

Originally Posted by Pan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only point of this thread was to get guilds to agree to exploit broken content - specifically Dain.

I don't have an issue with anyone taking a swing at a broken or improperly tuned ring war as often as the possibility recycles. More power to you if you can figure out a way to beat that third wave.

I do have an issue with the staff doing nothing about guilds exploiting content that was acknowledged to be broken since the end of August (post-fail Dain).

I do have an issue with people agreeing to divvy up the fruits of content that shouldn't exist but only does due to a bug. Especially if I'm asked to buy in and buy off on that exploit. To virtually sign a contract agreeing to cheat.

I'd love to be able to take a swing at unlimited Dains in our high-population wheelhouse. But we don't consider it (nor do we consider buying in and off on this agreement) because it's clearly an exploit.

That said, if you're the kind of person who subscribes to the notions that:

If you're not cheating, you're not trying
It's not cheating if you don't get caught
It's not cheating even if you get caught but don't get punished

I can respect that on some level. That's who you are. That's how you approach life and the game.

Just to bring the lack of enforcement to the fore, I'd almost encourage you to spawn and kill serial Dains. As many and as often as you can.

And in parallel, I encourage the staff to rewrite the server and raid rules to more reflect reality. Here are some examples:

1. If you didn't fraps it, it didn't happen.
2. Q11: What about training away trash mobs?
A: This is acceptable, but if you choose to use this tactic, you must keep in mind that you are responsible for your trains/mobs. Meaning if your trainer dies, and the mobs go wipe another guild, that’s still training. BUT ONLY IF YOU GET CAUGHT. Otherwise you're clearly responsible for nothing.
3. Feel free to openly admit to exploiting broken content (see the precedent on Dain as a guide) without consequence.

And so on.

As it stands around here, those raiders who choose not to exploit/cheat/train/grief as a matter of course are at a significant disadvantage to those who do. And it would make for a lot more level playing field if the server rules actually reflected what the staff was interested in enforcing - whatever that is.

But until that happens, I see no reason to being drawn into a jackpot to agree to exploit broken content (post-ring Dains).

And until that or a fix happens, I see no reason why those whose only impetus to follow the rules of the server is to avoid punishment should not spawn and kill Dain at every opportunity. There's clearly no consequences historically.

We won't be signing the agreement. But we won't be in the way if you want to divvy up exploited content, either.

Jesus its just a game man, relax. Paralleling it with assumptions on how I live my personal life with a wall of text is uncalled for. That being said, what exactly do we do with the Dain when it spawns after a fail? Never kill it? Its obvious that won't happen so, I reiterate, this thread was made to avoid the disaster that would be every Dain after a ring war fail.

All that has to happen is for a GM to say "Hey, we don't want you killing the Dain after a failed attempt, we will be death touching any further Dains that spawn after a failed attempt."

I don't see that anywhere, do you?

[Pint]

you guys are incredible, if you cant complete the ring war then this thread isnt even for you. some of us can complete the ring war and we arnt going to deny ourselves a challenge simply bc the rest of you have deemed something to be "too hard" or "unwinnable". what is that outrageously long and irrelevant diatribe about getting caught cheating even doing in this thread, nobody is cheating and nobody is doing anything that isnt public knowledge, unbelievable. y'all go high horse somewhere else on the internet.

[Pan]

@Detoxx: It's a bug according to Haynar.

Do you need to be told not to exploit each bug individually?

Is that seriously what you're basing your argument on?

@Pint: Nobody's completed it successfully yet (so am I to assume that this thread isn't for you?). I'm not averse to people trying. This thread is about the buggy Dain that happens after a failed attempt. Winnability of the war is rather irrelevant in that even if it were perfectly tuned, buggy Dains would still be at issue.