Spells: Veeshan's Peak AEs - Incorrect Resist Checks

[Daldaen]

Bump

[Daldaen]

Bump. Simple DB change to the spell data.

These should never have a Lure/-150 resist check during Velious. It makes them damn near impossible to resist with 255 in the Resist. Very unclassic situation in VP currently when you can't resist Hoshkar or Nexona AEs.

[Daldaen]

Bump

[Synthlol]

Bump

[Kaino]

Its pretty ridiculous a bug this impactful is just completely ignored

[Raev]

It wouldn't surprise me if it's the basic PC vs NPC resist system that's overtuned. For example, after spending 30 seconds scanning the first page I could think of on allakhazam: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=6708

Does normal damage as mobs in here of this level .. hits with fire ae spells .. best to have fire resist gear and druid fire resist spell's on. with decent fr his ae's don't do that much. Drops pieces for SS quest.

The AE effect is 300 damage. Easily resisted at level 60 with 200 heat resist.

Whereas I would regularly need decent spot heals despite having 255 FR and 50 hp/tick regen. It also claims that the burning guardians triple rather than quad like they do on P99. I guess with a truly classic resist system the VP dragons would be 1 groupable, 5% regen or no.

I suppose nilbog would flip, but if I were a P99 dev I would try to write mechanics that had a few tunable 'balance' knobs, like 'hidden player resist penalty' and 'increase NPC damage' and such. If P99 green is ever released, you can set those to zero for a fully classic experience. With a mature server like blue, I can't help but feel that you need something extra so the NPCs don't get walked over.

[Rygar]

Keep in mind there was a patch on 9/4/2002 that changed resistances, not sure what specifically, but any mention of resistances past that date should be taken with a grain of salt (one of those posts were before this date, and one after):

Please note: there are a lot of changes going into the game with today's patch. Some of these changes (such as the changes to resistances and spell stacking) will change aspects of the game that may make gameplay different. Keep this in mind when you log in. With system-wide changes like these it is entirely possible that there are still bugs. Please report these bugs using /bug, and know that we will work to fix them as fast as we can. But also note that some intended changes might appear as bugs (perhaps a spell no longer stacks with another spell). Feel free to report these as bugs if you are unsure. But please keep in mind the changes listed here as well.

However, more interesting mentions in that patch:

We've made some fairly drastic changes to the way the spell resistance system works. Previously, there was only the smallest benefit to having resists over a certain value. We've reworked resistance in its entirety, completely replacing the old system with one that is more logical.

The idea behind the changes is pretty simple: Resists should matter in a way that makes sense.

Resists matter more for PCs. There are now tangible differences between having 50, 150, and 250 in a given resistance, for example. Resistance buffs, bard songs, and resist gear have actual value, all the way up the line.

It would definitely seem to imply from this that on P99 there should be little value to maximizing your resists, marginal difference from 150 - 255. Entirely possible 201-255 was useless much like the well-known returns for mana being only +1 point for having 201-255 wis/int.

This lines up with Raev's link to the burning guardian comments of it being easily resisted. I know on P99 I've had 255 FR/CR and been hit on the regular and needing spot heals as mentioned.

[Rygar]

I realize this isn't a VP dragon, but was looking into resist system in general to see if there was more merit to player resists being a joke. I found this interesting, post is dated July of 2001:
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5466&page=2

Oh, side note, killed my first dragon ever yesterday. Faydedar. We did it with only 4 groups of people, too. Got Manan his LP for his epic. I don't know if it was just him, but dragon roar seems very weak. I only had 88 MR and it diddn't even stick once. His lava breath, though, sucks. I was up to about 130 FR and I was consistantly getting hit for a few hundred a shot. Not that it's a lot, mind you, but it's AoE so it adds up when the healer is trying to heal everyone.

Should be worth mentioning that Faydedar is a level 55 dragon, and this poster previously mentioned he was a level 51 earlier in the thread. Even if Faydedar's Roar had no lure component, I feel like a level 51 with 88 MR would be constantly running in terror on P99?

I'm not sure what Faydedar casts as dragon weapon on P99 vs. Live, but if it is Lava Breath per the wiki (500 AoE) then 130 FR being able to knock this down to 'a few hundred' gives resist adjustments a bit more merit.

[Pringles]

My thoughts on this give me an idea of why they use the Luclin resist malus. It's obvious from some of the previous posts that there was some secondary resist mechanic that came into play with raid dragons. Now we can't precisely figure out how that mechanic worked. So I think devs put the Luclin malus' in to simulate that mechanic. Although if we read through the comments I believe the resists are slightly over tuned and should be reduced by some amount. I'd ballpark maybe a decrease of 50 which would make it more in line with what the research shows.

[Dolalin]

I do find it amusing that this thread was even bumped by Sirken and still gets ignored. It must have been voted down internally or something.

I can see an argument for leavings things as they are to avoid trivializing the raid game on a very mature late-Velious server. But for a new server they should be fixed.