An open letter from <Forsaken>

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We did leave TMO to form another guild (TMO wasn't disbanded formally, because the guild still has a live and active membership/leadership...IB wasn't officially disbanded either though)

We did wipe our DKP

We did retire our guild page (www.tmoguild.org)

We did install new leadership (only 2 officers were carried over. IB carried over several)

And we did so having no idea we'd be punished for it.

Looks like you're trying to compare changing your guild name to dodging a suspension. That might be the root of your problem.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Looks like you're trying to compare changing your guild name to dodging a suspension. That might be the root of your problem.

The theory here is the consideration of a guild being considered a "new guild". The "new guild" argument is based on fact that all new guilds start as Class-R.

[Man0warr]

Rogean stated that 69 of 74 were formerly in "The Mystical Order". I would be interested to know of those 69 how many were in their previous guilds most recent successful raids. Numbers may not always tell the whole story.

Probably the majority of them were their successful raiders. If you are going to reform, why bring along the chaff you mass recruited in the last 6 months?

This is all irrelevant though. Rogean deemed Forsaken as TMO reformed, and his opinion is all that matters. If you don't like it, you know what you can do.

[Herp]

There's 2 blue TMO on at 4PM EST on a Friday to Forsaken's 19, stop trying to fool us with this "100 people still tagged TMO" nonsense. Seriously, know your audience. We aren't that stupid.

On top of that, how many members of Forsaken have mentioned on Twitch while streaming Teamspeak, or in tells with other guilds, or on your forums etc, that your plan was to go Class R for ~2 weeks, get locked out of everything while building your guild up a tad, then hop right back into Class C? Do we need to shove logs and links and screenshots in another thread again?

Next time heed the two dozen warnings your officers got ahead of time.

[wormed]

Whoever thinks Forsaken should be considered a new guild with some 95% of the previous raiders of TMO has reached an enlightened state of delusional.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The theory here is the consideration of a guild being considered a "new guild". The "new guild" argument is based on fact that all new guilds start as Class-R.

There's an established way to move from class C to class R, though. Reforming under a new guild tag and raiding with more than 93% of the same members from the old guild (Why wasn't slydexx tagged before?) is not a part of it.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by wormed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think whoever thinks Forsaken should be considered a new guild with some 95% of the previous raiders of TMO has reached an enlightened state of delusional.

Wormed, are you more comfortable with Taken and BDA remaining in class-R through velious launch, cycling their lockout timers so that guilds like Asgard will never have a real shot at downing targets? Do you not see that as a "blatant manipulation of the class system?"

Do you not agree that the class-R system was designed for guilds to progress to Class-C. Is there not enough evidence besides their lack of desire to be in Class-C to prove that they no longer belong in Class-R? If lack of desire is the only thing causing your reservation, how about a newly formed guild simply not wanting to go into Class-C right off the bat?

[Ravager]

Guild forms to drop the stigma of the old tag. Decides they want a new tag with new stigma.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's an established way to move from class C to class R, though. Reforming under a new guild tag and raiding with more than 93% of the same members from the old guild (Why wasn't slydexx tagged before?) is not a part of it.

Ehhh, it's not necessarily 93% of the old guild - that's skewing the numbers. It's 93% of the new guild that were formerly part of TMO. But, I know what you mean so I'll go with that and say it's more a matter of perspective. Those "93%" are testament to how many people wanted nothing to do with <The Mystical Order> anymore. They were all looking for something new and were considering just going to Rampage if Forsaken didn't come about.

Contrary, you can also hold the perspective, which you do, to suggest that 93% of those people only left TMO to capture the Class-R market, which isn't so in reality.

Thus the stark difference of perception vs. reality.

[wormed]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wormed, are you more comfortable with Taken and BDA remaining in class-R through velious launch, cycling their lockout timers so that guilds like Asgard will never have a real shot at downing targets? Do you not see that as a "blatant manipulation of the class system?"

Do you not agree that the class-R system was designed for guilds to progress to Class-C. Is there not enough evidence besides their lack of desire to be in Class-C to prove that they no longer belong in Class-R? If lack of desire is the only thing causing your reservation, how about a newly formed guild simply not wanting to go into Class-C right off the bat?

First, this thread really shouldn't have anything to do with Taken, BDA, or even Asgard. I thought I was simply replying in a thread on Forsaken. What Forsaken did was wrong. I'm genuinely surprised at anyone who is against Rogean's decision, or thinks that Forsaken isn't simply an iteration of TMO. To consider Forsaken as a "new" guild is a farce, that's the point. Again, it boggles my mind that you, or anyone, can consider Forsaken to be anything more than a renamed TMO. However, it is irrelevant as Rogean agrees with my sentiment, and of others in this thread.

Second, regarding raid policy, I'm fairly new to it. Flat out. So I don't want to pretend I've been around for very long. From what I do know, are there some issues? Sure. However, when it comes to Asgard, I'm very happy with my guild.

I will say I agree that Class-R is designed to progress guilds, or at least I imagine that's the intent.