Hey Forsaken

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by B4EQWASCOOL [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jokes on somaht now...

I said 7 when it was really 5, oh, woe is me. I think this deserves an unrelated GIF.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I said 7 when it was really 5, oh, woe is me.

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[Misek84]

First off anyone thinking that the move from tmo to forshaken was some conspiracy to move from C to R is delusional. I dont think getting a few "easier" class R kills is worth replacing leadership, wiping DKP, setting up new site, etc. The reason forshaken started in R was becuse they were not sure how many people will move to the new guild and they needed some time to get organized before moving to C (which is the main reason for class R, as a stepping stone to C).

With that said wiping the loot from the first week kills and suspending for an extra 2 weeks, comes to three week penalty. Thats way to harsh considering IB/Ramp never got any extra time when Ramp made kills during IBs suspension.

From my understanding staff would want a competetive raid scene, but thats really hard to do when the guild on top gets slaps on the hand while the guild trying to comp gets harsh penalties for "violations" that were not done on purpose or unknown it was a violation until after. Obviously TMO had issues and the reform was done so that it can stay competitive. By issuing this harsh penalty when forshaken is just trying to reorganize so it can start competing again is bad and leads one to question if staff even wants people to compete against ramp.

[Pheer]

Originally Posted by Misek84 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First off anyone thinking that the move from tmo to forshaken was some conspiracy to move from C to R is delusional. I dont think getting a few "easier" class R kills is worth replacing leadership, wiping DKP, setting up new site, etc. The reason forshaken started in R was becuse they were not sure how many people will move to the new guild and they needed some time to get organized before moving to C (which is the main reason for class R, as a stepping stone to C).

With that said wiping the loot from the first week kills and suspending for an extra 2 weeks, comes to three week penalty. Thats way to harsh considering IB/Ramp never got any extra time when Ramp made kills during IBs suspension.

From my understanding staff would want a competetive raid scene, but thats really hard to do when the guild on top gets slaps on the hand while the guild trying to comp gets harsh penalties for "violations" that were not done on purpose or unknown it was a violation until after. Obviously TMO had issues and the reform was done so that it can stay competitive. By issuing this harsh penalty when forshaken is just trying to reorganize so it can start competing again is bad and leads one to question if staff even wants people to compete against ramp.

http://www.project1999.com/raid.php

"Demotion from Class C to Class R may only be done at the approval of the Server Staff."

[Merekai]

Originally Posted by Pheer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.project1999.com/raid.php

"Demotion from Class C to Class R may only be done at the approval of the Server Staff."

I don't think Forsaken was trying to knowingly circumvent the class system, or whatever language Rogean used. The above rule is really the only thing that is relevant here though. The staff used the high % of former TMO making up the new guild to make a subjective judgement that Forsaken was comprised almost entirely of Class C raiders from a single previously established Class C guild, and should naturally be assigned C status. If there was communication with a GM before Forsaken killed class R mobs, saying yes this is approved then I would completely understand people being upset after having a suspension come down. If no concrete answer from a GM was given then exercising caution instead would have been the wise choice.

Sure we have some scenarios that have established precedence in terms of rules, but comparing situation X with situation Y doesn't really fly considering it is well known by most players who have had camp/raid disputes that GM's use their own discretion and you can't bank on a ruling in your favor last week equating to a ruling in your favor today in a similar, yet still unique scenario. Either way I wish Forsaken the best, I just wish your name didn't remind me of a guild of the same name back on Rodcet :P

Chev

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Merekai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think Forsaken was trying to knowingly circumvent the class system, or whatever language Rogean used.

You must be the only one who hasn't seen the screen shot of their forums where they discuss using the rebrand as a tool to circumvent the class system.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Misek84 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First off anyone thinking that the move from tmo to forshaken was some conspiracy to move from C to R is delusional. I dont think getting a few "easier" class R kills is worth replacing leadership, wiping DKP, setting up new site, etc. The reason forshaken started in R was becuse they were not sure how many people will move to the new guild and they needed some time to get organized before moving to C (which is the main reason for class R, as a stepping stone to C).

With that said wiping the loot from the first week kills and suspending for an extra 2 weeks, comes to three week penalty. Thats way to harsh considering IB/Ramp never got any extra time when Ramp made kills during IBs suspension.

From my understanding staff would want a competetive raid scene, but thats really hard to do when the guild on top gets slaps on the hand while the guild trying to comp gets harsh penalties for "violations" that were not done on purpose or unknown it was a violation until after. Obviously TMO had issues and the reform was done so that it can stay competitive. By issuing this harsh penalty when forshaken is just trying to reorganize so it can start competing again is bad and leads one to question if staff even wants people to compete against ramp.

I don't think that's a fair assessment at all.

Yes, it was a circumvention of the class tiers. Rogean recognized that pretty quickly.

Rampage did serve some of IB's punishment. I don't know all the details so I can't give you an informed opinion if that punishment was fair and balanced. Rampage also stayed in class C the entire time so it's apples to oranges.

Changing your name and keeping 93% of the same roster doesn't mean you're a new guild. If they really wanted to test the waters they could have waited 30 days to cool down like we did. FFS they even got to keep a portion of the TMO dkp. Forsaken knew what they were doing and they got popped. That's on them.

I think the staff wants some sort of competiton, but when penalties aren't enforced equally and logically it makes people feel like there's an unfair advantage, and this balance of power changes periodically. It wasn't too long ago that IB left for eqmac because they thought Amelinda would never give them a fair shake (RMTing off all their loot in the process)

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by Misek84 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

By issuing this harsh penalty when forshaken is just trying to reorganize so it can start competing again is bad and leads one to question if staff even wants people to compete against ramp.

Velious launch would go much smoother with just one "competitive" guild. Isn't that what you, Hoku, and Rogean discussed over dinner, Unbrella? TMO / Rampage merger never happened so incoming sanctions. I don't have any vested in how any of this goes anymore, but it's sad to see my old guild getting kicked while they are down. Almost makes you wanna quit, huh? Maybe that's the point.

[Rayzor84]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Velious launch would go much smoother with just one "competitive" guild. Isn't that what you, Hoku, and Rogean discussed over dinner, Unbrella? TMO / Rampage merger never happened so incoming sanctions. I don't have any vested in how any of this goes anymore, but it's sad to see my old guild getting kicked while they are down. Almost makes you wanna quit, huh? Maybe that's the point.

Your old guild shouldn't have tried to get around their class restrictions.

[arsenalpow]

How about this, where is the correspondence from Sirken giving Forsaken approval to go nuts in class R?

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They halfway thought it through, but I don't think they actually followed up with Sirken.