Sir Lucan D'Lere - FTE or Camp?

[Bohab]

Point of the thread is to establish consistency. There are several camps in the game that are 'static' but are considered FTE or at least that is the consensus of the community. Then things suddenly change... It's ridiculous.

[Swish]

If he's campable you'll be buying MQs from now on.

Another win for EC fat cats.

[Bohab]

Not here to argue or flame anyone. The point of the post was to establish consistency. Myself and many others have experiences with Lucan where it was much like camping (tracking?) VT. When it spawns you engage regardless of who has been there longer. Phinny is a static spawn on a static timer and yet there is no regard for who has been 'camping' him longer and as far as I know it is not considered a camp. There is no consistency and that is what makes the conflict. Most of us want to work within the rules but please make them consistent.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Bohab [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not here to argue or flame anyone. The point of the post was to establish consistency. Myself and many others have experiences with Lucan where it was much like camping (tracking?) VT. When it spawns you engage regardless of who has been there longer. Phinny is a static spawn on a static timer and yet there is no regard for who has been 'camping' him longer and as far as I know it is not considered a camp. There is no consistency and that is what makes the conflict. Most of us want to work within the rules but please make them consistent.

I'd like for you to explain your VT delusion further. You act as if you've camped it before, but you seem to be either confused by the camping rules or you're outright lying about it being a problem.

Most people track VT with a level 1 DE cleric alt. They change their Enchanters bind point to Neriak Third Gate, and they have friends log alt healers/tanks there with them. This allows them to casually track her during the hours they're not actively raiding. When she spawns, they switch characters and wait for their force to show up since Enchanters are squishy and might have a hard time soloing her (twice so for Vessel).

That makes the VT encounter normally come down to first in force, not first to engage. If you engage without your force with no intent on killing (kiting), that's a stall and also subject to discipline.

If somebody had a force present in zone at the spawn ready to pull when VT spawns, I would say that they'll get the kill. If two forces were present, I would say that that's a lot of wasted time and the decision would come down to whoever wasn't AFK when it spawned.

So is VT campable? Sure. Are you going to make your friends and guild mates waste 5 days of their lives in Neriak Third Gate waiting for her to spawn? Jesus Christ no.

[Bohab]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So is VT campable? Sure..

Look I understand how the encounter typically goes down. But the fact is you can sit in front a spawned VT or Lucan waiting for help to kill it. In the case of Lucan it was established a camp meaning whom ever has been waiting the longest gets the kill. In the case of VT it's FTE. Two cases where you have players en route to help you but one is FTE and one is a Camp. If variance makes all the difference then so be it... but there are other static spawns in the game that are still in the grey area of whether they are FTE or a Camp. That's all I'm looking to address.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Bohab [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look I understand how the encounter typically goes down. But the fact is you can sit in front a spawned VT or Lucan waiting for help to kill it. In the case of Lucan it was established a camp meaning whom ever has been waiting the longest gets the kill. In the case of VT it's FTE. Two cases where you have players en route to help you but one is FTE and one is a Camp. If variance makes all the difference then so be it... but there are other static spawns in the game that are still in the grey area of whether they are FTE or a Camp. That's all I'm looking to address.

Quit trying to confuse things. On this Lucan, you tried to cut in-front of someone who was already there and had a force ready to down him. Please show me any instance of that happening with VT. Ever.

If the mob is up, and no one is engaging it, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But that's not the way this has played out. At all.

[Bohab]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Quit trying to confuse things. On this Lucan, you tried to cut in-front of someone who was already there and had a force ready to down him. Please show me any instance of that happening with VT. Ever.

If the mob is up, and no one is engaging it, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But that's not the way this has played out. At all.

Sir I had a force ready to down him as well. You're missing some key facts in the situation you seem to know so much about. You seem to strive for conflict so this is the final time I will address one of your posts. This isn't about me or him or even the exact situation that happened this morning. It's about making sure we're all on the same page here. We're aware that Lucan is a camp. End of story, that's how the GMs decided it. Ok great, it is a camp. But why is this similar spawn FTE and not a camp? How can we tell the difference between camp and FTE without creating a conflict. I didn't see it as 'cutting' anyone because myself and my guild mates were under the impression it was a case of FTE. If we had known it was a camp then I would have never had engaged Lucan with other players in camp.

[kaev]

If players on live had been so relentlessly obsessed with soulfire as every random toon's raid clicky the way we are here it would've been fixed to be clickable by paladin only long before it was. There're more tin-plated toolbags per square inch on this server than even the worst of the original live communities dreamed of.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If players on live had been so relentlessly obsessed with soulfire as every random toon's raid clicky the way we are here it would've been fixed to be clickable by paladin only long before it was. There're more tin-plated toolbags per square inch on this server than even the worst of the original live communities dreamed of.

The only reason SoulFires are obsessed over is because of FTEing 16 Hour Variance mobs and CotH-a-Trakanon.

If there were no variance, and guilds knew a very small window of when a mob would spawn, they wouldn't FTE a mob and then find out only 10 people logged on to their batphone at 3 AM. They would have a viable force since they knew when the raid was happening and wouldn't need to spam SoulFires to stay alive.

Also Trakanon being a CotH race, engaging with 8-10 people, and just inching along living off clickies, is another point of SoulFire use.

Remove Variance and remove CotHing from Trakanon (though... Trakanon without CotH would be hilariously retarded on this server). They would lose most of their Classic/Kunark use on raids. Reapers would suffice to fill in gaps in healing.

In Verrious though, I'm not sure you'll be able to prevent that.

[fiveeauxfour]

Just make every NPC on a fte basis and make every NPC give a zonewide engage shout. Solved.