BREAKING: Obongo's TREASONOUS Moslem Afrocentric appeasement

[Big_Japan]

"liberating" women was mobilizing half of our population for total war. You have to be pretty drunk on amurika kool-aid to be oblivious to that.

[Connecticut]

Israel's conscription policy has fostered a pervasive groupthink issue within the population.

Their continued apartheid of the Gaza strip strains our otherwise friendly relationship.

[Big_Japan]

You seem to think I have love for Iran. I don't. It's a fucked-up mess that meddling and entangling alliances created, and it can only be fixed by discontinuing those policies.

[Patriam1066]

You seem to think that Khomeini wasn't an idealogue who hated Israel from the get go. This was going to happen regardless. Totalitarian governments seeking hegemony can't be reasoned with. Russia was opened to the international economy, so was China. Have we seen the inevitable opening of the political orders that everyone said would happen? Or do we see states with much better technology, access to western technology and markets, who are now better positioned to seek their own aims.

I'm not going to tell you that I think America is always right in foreign policy. America fucked Iran in 1953, everyone who grew up in Esfahan (and in the rest of the country) knows that. But Iran doesn't act this way because of America. They are ideological. Just like Russia, and just like China. You have a group of people in charge who want only more power for themselves, and they will hold their nations down regardless of what it means for their people.

Russia in Georgia and Ukraine, China in the South China Sea, and Iran in Syria, Yemen, etc.
This is about hegemony for their political elites, not their people. If these governments actually cared about their people, they would open the political order, or at the very list, provide basic human rights like a Singapore (a fairly authoritarian state but in such a way that people are treated mostly with dignity).

We could argue forever, but I've actually lived there. It isn't the same way you think it is. America has a plutocratic government. Iran is something different. They are conditioned to fight forever, regardless of what it costs their people. Do put it as simply as I can, they are run by people that are very similar to the people that run Russia. They will burn their countries to the ground if they can stand atop the ashes.

I just want what's best for my people, and nothing but political reform is a move in the right direction.

[Big_Japan]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You seem to think that Khomeini wasn't an idealogue who hated Israel from the get go. This was going to happen regardless. Totalitarian governments seeking hegemony can't be reasoned with. Russia was opened to the international economy, so was China. Have we seen the inevitable opening of the political orders that everyone said would happen? Or do we see states with much better technology, access to western technology and markets, who are now better positioned to seek their own aims.

I'm not going to tell you that I think America is always right in foreign policy. America fucked Iran in 1953, everyone who grew up in Esfahan (and in the rest of the country) knows that. But Iran doesn't act this way because of America. They are ideological. Just like Russia, and just like China. You have a group of people in charge who want only more power for themselves, and they will hold their nations down regardless of what it means for their people.

Russia in Georgia and Ukraine, China in the South China Sea, and Iran in Syria, Yemen, etc.
This is about hegemony for their political elites, not their people. If these governments actually cared about their people, they would open the political order, or at the very list, provide basic human rights like a Singapore (a fairly authoritarian state but in such a way that people are treated mostly with dignity).

We could argue forever, but I've actually lived there. It isn't the same way you think it is. America has a plutocratic government. Iran is something different. They are conditioned to fight forever, regardless of what it costs their people. Do put it as simply as I can, they are run by people that are very similar to the people that run Russia. They will burn their countries to the ground if they can stand atop the ashes.

I just want what's best for my people, and nothing but political reform is a move in the right direction.

I don't suppose dominion over other nations and races, and I don't justify the meddling in foreign nations' affairs that forces them on the path of militarism with heartstring-tugging propaganda. I don't give a fuck if Iran murders Iranian protestors, or if Iranian people are unhappy. That does not give my nation license to meddle in Iran's affairs. I'm not a totalitarian, sorry.

This is quite simply the "world police" argument. The US literally kidnaps 17 year olds and pumps ground chickpeas into their ass without medical necessity to torture them. You want to talk about evil governments?

The only way forward is to scale back our meddling in foreign affairs. Without the intense economic and military interference that has turned Iran into a pressure-cooker, we might actually have a chance at seeing peace and an open Iran governed more like Turkey, or like Iran was before we literally toppled the regime. Also, what kind of twisted doublethink does it take to blame Iran for not being open to the West when it is sanctioned to shit by the West?

Nuclear weapons are ugly, but nuclear deterrence brings some semblance of stability. That's what Israel can't have if it is to expand its hegemony over the region.

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by Big_Japan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't suppose dominion over other nations and races, and I don't justify the meddling in foreign nations' affairs that forces them on the path of militarism with heartstring-tugging propaganda. I don't give a fuck if Iran murders Iranian protestors, or if Iranian people are unhappy. That does not give my nation license to meddle in Iran's affairs. I'm not a totalitarian, sorry.

This is quite simply the "world police" argument. The US literally kidnaps 17 year olds and pumps ground chickpeas into their ass without medical necessity to torture them. You want to talk about evil governments?

The only way forward is to scale back our meddling in foreign affairs. Without the intense economic and military interference that has turned Iran into a pressure-cooker, we might actually have a chance at seeing peace and an open Iran governed more like Turkey, or like Iran was before we literally toppled the regime. Also, what kind of twisted doublethink does it take to blame Iran for not being open to the West when it is sanctioned to shit by the West?

Nuclear weapons are ugly, but nuclear deterrence brings some semblance of stability. That's what Israel can't have if it is to expand its hegemony over the region.

thank god you where not fucking around when Adolf was in the reichtag fapping over europa map.

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Big_Japan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't give a fuck if Iran murders Iranian protestors, or if Iranian people are unhappy. That does not give my nation license to meddle in Iran's affairs. I'm not a totalitarian, sorry.

This is quite simply the "world police" argument. The US literally kidnaps 17 year olds and pumps ground chickpeas into their ass without medical necessity to torture them. You want to talk about evil governments?

The only way forward is to scale back our meddling in foreign affairs. Without the intense economic and military interference that has turned Iran into a pressure-cooker, we might actually have a chance at seeing peace and an open Iran governed more like Turkey, or like Iran was before we literally toppled the regime. Also, what kind of twisted doublethink does it take to blame Iran for not being open to the West when it is sanctioned to shit by the West?

Nuclear weapons are ugly, but nuclear deterrence brings some semblance of stability. That's what Israel can't have if it is to expand its hegemony over the region.

1. No shit. I do care about them though, because that's the only ting that matters in this world. Regardless of what you believe in, millions of people live and die under despotism and poverty, and unlikely you, thats the ONLY thing I care about. I am motivated purely by good will towards other people. Am I wrong some of the time? Of course. But my motivations are pure. Free Iran. That government has no intention of ever giving its people dignity or doing anything other than turning the Middle East into a meat grinder. I can't simply ignore the evidence that they can't be trusted with a nuke. They can't be trusted with any sort of power.

2. Sanctions were introduced on Iran because of human rights violations. Should America continue to trade with people who blatantly imprison political dissidents and suppress women? We put sanctions on the Apartheid government of South Africa, but somehow those sanctions were moral but these weren't? Please, go live in Iran. You would agree with my opinions in less than 5 minutes.

3. No one, including America, has any moral right to a nuclear weapon. But allowing proliferation in a region that has shown itself to be flat out crazy is not a rational policy, its the covering up of the absence of a policy. If Brazil asks for a nuke tomorrow, I wouldn't be worried, why the fuck would I be? But a region where Iran, Pakistan, and (next) Saudi Arabia have nuclear weapons? That's a danger not only to the people of Iran that you don't care about, it's also a threat to all life on this earth. People who think the earth is 6,000 years old and that a meteorite in Mecca that was once a pilgrimage site for pagans but now magically is the symbol of the one true god should not have the capability to eradicate all life on the planet, especially when they've proven themselves in the past of atrocities.

I'm done with the argument. I get it guys, you don't want war with Iran. No shit, who the fuck does. Nuclear proliferation is just flat out a bad idea. As evil as you think America is, it just doesn't compare to places like Russia or Iran. It really doesn't.

[Big_Japan]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. No shit. I do care about them though, because that's the only ting that matters in this world. Regardless of what you believe in, millions of people live and die under despotism and poverty, and unlikely you, thats the ONLY thing I care about. I am motivated purely by good will towards other people. Am I wrong some of the time? Of course. But my motivations are pure. Free Iran. That government has no intention of ever giving its people dignity or doing anything other than turning the Middle East into a meat grinder. I can't simply ignore the evidence that they can't be trusted with a nuke. They can't be trusted with any sort of power.

2. Sanctions were introduced on Iran because of human rights violations. Should America continue to trade with people who blatantly imprison political dissidents and suppress women? We put sanctions on the Apartheid government of South Africa, but somehow those sanctions were moral but these weren't? Please, go live in Iran. You would agree with my opinions in less than 5 minutes.

3. No one, including America, has any moral right to a nuclear weapon. But allowing proliferation in a region that has shown itself to be flat out crazy is not a rational policy, its the covering up of the absence of a policy. If Brazil asks for a nuke tomorrow, I wouldn't be worried, why the fuck would I be? But a region where Iran, Pakistan, and (next) Saudi Arabia have nuclear weapons? That's a danger not only to the people of Iran that you don't care about, it's also a threat to all life on this earth. People who think the earth is 6,000 years old and that a meteorite in Mecca that was once a pilgrimage site for pagans but now magically is the symbol of the one true god should not have the capability to eradicate all life on the planet, especially when they've proven themselves in the past of atrocities.

I'm done with the argument. I get it guys, you don't want war with Iran. No shit, who the fuck does. Nuclear proliferation is just flat out a bad idea. As evil as you think America is, it just doesn't compare to places like Russia or Iran. It really doesn't.

Human rights violations were the pretext to sanctions, just like theyve been the pretext to wars of aggression. If the word "evil" has something to do with your outlook on geopolitics and American foreign policy you are oblivious. Sorry.

This isn't about kittens and rainbows, it's about strong-arming a self-determining state into playing ball with pillaging Zionists and neocolonial Babylon.

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Big_Japan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Human rights violations were the pretext to sanctions, just like theyve been the pretext to wars of aggression. If the word "evil" has something to do with your outlook on geopolitics and American foreign policy you are oblivious. Sorry.

This isn't about kittens and rainbows, it's about strong-arming a self-determining state into playing ball with pillaging Zionists and neocolonial Babylon.

You win dude. I can't argue with a person who doesn't think Iran violates human rights.

Just FYI though, I grew up in Iran. You're the one who's having his views clouded by propaganda and pretext. I've seen it with my own two eyes. I remember being forced to leave my country. I hope you'll never experience the same.

"The seven Baha'is - two women and five men - were sentenced to twenty years in prison on 7 August 2010, They are prisoners of conscience, persecuted solely for exercising their right to freedom of religion. The estimated 300,000 members of Iran's Baha'i community-Iran's largest non-Muslim religious minority-are subjected to systematic persecution, including the exclusion from higher education."

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/c...rison-Sentence

[sean_nall]

Obama best president.