Blade of Carnage drop on beta

[Ele]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What exactly are you trying to show with those links? Because you seem to be arguing against your own point. Those are from july 2001. During which time, Legacy of Steel had absolutely 0 NToV loot, and they still got AoW that low. You guys can poke holes in our "theorycrafting" all you want, but math is math and eq is a game of basic math and statistics. Especially on a mob that attacks one target every 1.8 (is that right here?) seconds for less than their max hitpoints.

LoS had been farming Sleeper's for over a month by July 2001 and pioneered the Dozekar tear quests earlier than that. They had been killing vindi/statue/tormax/dain for months.

For the July 27 kill: The Avatar of War proved to be no match for the joint forces of Shock of Swords and Legacy of Steel in an epic battle that lasted for over 30 minutes.

The attempt they had 2 weeks earlier, they had a joint raid with Shock of Swords and Paragons of Fury.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Especially on a mob that attacks one target every 1.8 (is that right here?) seconds for less than their max hitpoints.

His cooldown is just over 1 second here.

[Fri Mar 06 22:39:21 2015] The Avatar of War hits Detoxx for 704 points of damage.
[Fri Mar 06 22:39:21 2015] The Avatar of War hits Detoxx for 372 points of damage.
[Fri Mar 06 22:39:21 2015] The Avatar of War tries to hit Detoxx, but misses!
[Fri Mar 06 22:39:21 2015] The Avatar of War hits Detoxx for 704 points of damage.
[Fri Mar 06 22:39:21 2015] The Avatar of War executes a FLURRY of attacks on Detoxx!
---
[Fri Mar 06 22:39:22 2015] The Avatar of War hits Detoxx for 704 points of damage.
[Fri Mar 06 22:39:22 2015] The Avatar of War tries to hit Detoxx, but misses!
[Fri Mar 06 22:39:22 2015] The Avatar of War tries to hit Detoxx, but misses!
[Fri Mar 06 22:39:22 2015] The Avatar of War hits Detoxx for 704 points of damage.
[Fri Mar 06 22:39:22 2015] The Avatar of War hits Detoxx for 325 points of damage.
[Fri Mar 06 22:39:22 2015] The Avatar of War hits Detoxx for 704 points of damage.
[Fri Mar 06 22:39:22 2015] The Avatar of War executes a FLURRY of attacks on Detoxx!
---
[Fri Mar 06 22:39:23 2015] The Avatar of War tries to hit Detoxx, but misses!
[Fri Mar 06 22:39:23 2015] The Avatar of War tries to hit Detoxx, but misses!
[Fri Mar 06 22:39:23 2015] The Avatar of War tries to hit Detoxx, but misses!
---
[Fri Mar 06 22:39:24 2015] The Avatar of War hits Detoxx for 704 points of damage.

So yeah, he's overtuned [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Just like the resist system is ridiculously overtuned right now (we should be resisting way more than 20% of Sontalak's fire AE and 50% of his fears with max FR/MR) but I like it that way for a bit more challenge. I just get irritated at people who bring up these vague classic memories and act like those should be some sort of proof standard.

Lets also not forget class composition here is way better than on Live. We don't have raids full of Pal/Dru/Sk etc.

[Nirgon]

Need to post parses or stfu at this point

I'll dump what I got tonite

But this prob needs a dev pal to get a good long parse

Anyone got a lvl 60 warrior in abouts full Kael armor on live or on test? I can ask the faceless order pals for logs if maybe they got some from eqlive test with in era gear.

[Treats]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What exactly are you trying to show with those links? Because you seem to be arguing against your own point. Those are from july 2001. During which time, Legacy of Steel had absolutely 0 NToV loot, and they still got AoW that low. You guys can poke holes in our "theorycrafting" all you want, but math is math and eq is a game of basic math and statistics. Especially on a mob that attacks one target every 1.8 (is that right here?) seconds for less than their max hitpoints.

How am I arguing against my own point, they were attempting and zerging him using Frozen Jesus.

His Atk Delay should be 1600 or 1700ms.

Sure, you can say EQ is a game of basic math and statistics. How many times then in a 30-60 minute fight do you think Avatar of War is going to max quad/flurry/bash/kick a tank for at or just below his maximum HP and kill him? How many times is a cleric going to be half a second late or half a second early on Complete Heal?

You're giving EQ mobs way too much credit. And the AoW kill on beta people were getting AOE rezzed, it DID rek the tanks. It was a wipe by all means. If 140 epic'd people cant zerge it in the unthinkable gear they had, you cannot sit here and say its undertuned. His max hits are well known, his HP is known, after that it is a mana and numbers game.

Those values that are known don't mean much. ATK and AC of the NPC determine mana efficiency, how many errors you can afford to make healing, and the length of the fight.

The server has always been backwards in terms of difficulty. The game is tuned from easy to hard when it should be the other way around. I don't blame the devs at all though, its a very difficult task when some the main components of what made the formulas work on live are unknown.

This is what I would start with:

Increase all notable NPCs ATK
Most hits would be for (DI-2) non Defensive and (DI-1) Defensive on a max Kunark AC value
(DI-x) would raise x as AC is increased from BiS Velious gear
Avoidance lowered depending on NPC/PC level difference

Increase all notable NPCs AC
DPS reduction of somewhere between 25% to 40% without Avatar
15% to 30% with Avatar

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

His Atk Delay should be 1600 or 1700ms.

It is ~1100ms here right now.

[Uuruk]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They absolutely zerged him.

They couldn't tank Avatar of War with NToV shit and didn't UNTIL RIGHT BEFORE THE NEXT FUCKING EXPANSION.

It boggles my mind how some of you think he could be killable in BiS Kunark gear.

They were probably just bads that had no clue what they were doing I guess.

There was a 8 month gap between kunark and velious on live not 4 years. Do people seriously not get the impact this has had?

[Treats]

Originally Posted by Uuruk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There was a 8 month gap between kunark and velious on live not 4 years. Do people seriously not get the impact this has had?

What Best in Slot Kunark items/weapons (besides Epic/PD Loot) are you using in Velious?

Where on earth are you drawing these ridiculous numbers/equations from? Avatar was like +10-15% dps, I had a rogue with a primal and I parsed all the damn time.

The old rule of thumb that everyone used was 10 atk = 1% dps increase.

For some reason you are still under the assumption the distribution is Linear which it is not.

What ridiculous numbers/equations are you talking about?

Total Attack = ATK Accuracy + ATK Efficiency
Total AC = AC Avoidance + AC Mitigation

All NPCs have differing AC Avoidance and AC Mitigation.

The higher the disparity between ATK Efficiency and AC Mitigation, the further the distribution is shifted. It is not just 10 atk = 1% dps, lol.

I would parse Avatar of War on a Level 60 (Live Test Server) with and without Avatar/Velious weapons but I don't have access to any high level characters.

[pasi]

I think he's wondering where you're pulling your figures from. The concepts aren't the misunderstanding, the numbers that are being plugged in are.

[heartbrand]

Gear checks didn't exist until gates of discord / plane of time with the introduction of capped raid instances. For all the hate against WoW they fixed zerging by having mob hp and stats go up per player on a raid.

[Ambrotos]

No it isn't unique. Just because you have prior knowledge doesn't mean things are working as they did on live. We had over 80 people with BIS along with another 20-30 people who were our sister guild and close in quality of gear. The fight lasted so long, I can't even tell you if it was 35 mins or 1hr.

I know for a fact Karana and AoW on here compared to live is nothing even remotely close. Just because you can theory quest eq numbers doesn't make it so. There is a reason why two of the best guilds in EQ had to wait an entire expansion to make a real attempt on him and you can't chalk it up to "internet connections".

200 man zerg on day one even if they knew what to do, wouldn't even be close to what AoW was on live.