Anyone here a Muslim? If so question for you...

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Sidelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm having a real problem with the idea of any group committing systematic and vengeful acts of mass rape and genocide against their historical enemies because of enslavement and horrible treatment that happened centuries ago. Rhetorically speaking, by that logic, is it now acceptable or reasonable if native americans and black people started raping and slaughtering white people in the USA to avenge their ancestors? (I know you wouldn't think that way, just so you know. I've read enough of your posts regarding religion and faith to know better.)

In my opinion, nothing could possibly make that level of violence acceptable or justifiable. I mean holy shit -- the horror that human beings are capable of inflicting on each other is just incredible...

If I ever lose my compassion or humanity to the point where I don't even blink an eye at the idea of committing the kind of genocidal violence that I've been reading about, I just wouldn't see any point in continuing to live anymore. I still don't know if I believe in God or not, but if he does exist I don't understand how he hasn't given up and wiped us all out by now.

Originally Posted by myriverse [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Vengeance is always evil. All ways.

I Don't disagree with these sentiments. But islam is a force that isn't easy to fight back against since the Islamic world is so repressed that their only form of expression is violent extremism. I'm not condoning it... I've never done anything violent to anyone other than get into fights in high school like 4 times. I'm simply saying I wish you guys spent more time fighting Islam than you did trying to condemn the crusaders and Serbs, who are minor blips compared to systematic oppression by muslims against christians, women, Baha'is, jews, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Yazidis, and literally EVERYONE else they've come into contact with.

I am not going to become violent or lack sympathy for the Bosnians. But to be completely honest, I have way more compassion for the Serbs, armenians, Copts, Assyrians, and the Persians, whose only crime was being in the path of barbarians.

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Sidelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(I know you wouldn't think that way, just so you know. I've read enough of your posts regarding religion and faith to know better.)

I know too many muslims personally to judge them all, to condemn them all, and most importantly, I understand that they are the ones most oppressed by their religion. Since I've made many of those posts, my family had our home (my grandfather died) taken by local authorities in Esfahan because my father married a Baha'i.

The house means nothing to me, but after being with my entire family over the Christmas holiday, I can see real pain caused by something as banal and asinine as this. Islam is hurting people just to hurt them. There is absolutely no reason for this form of nihilism.

I'll get over it in a month, but right now I'm more or less venting. Id delete my first post in the thread because I honestly don't agree with it, but that Would be a chicken shit thing to do and I am so mad at Iran right now that if I had my Quran on me, I'd use it as toilet paper, which is totally out of character for me.

Oh well, maybe one day people will get better. Until then, indulge me in my cathartic rage.

[Sidelle]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know too many muslims personally to judge them all, to condemn them all, and most importantly, I understand that they are the ones most oppressed by their religion. Since I've made many of those posts, my family had our home (my grandfather died) taken by local authorities in Esfahan because my father married a Baha'i.

The house means nothing to me, but after being with my entire family over the Christmas holiday, I can see real pain caused by something as banal and asinine as this. Islam is hurting people just to hurt them. There is absolutely no reason for this form of nihilism.

I'll get over it in a month, but right now I'm more or less venting. Id delete my first post in the thread because I honestly don't agree with it, but that Would be a chicken shit thing to do and I am so mad at Iran right now that if I had my Quran on me, I'd use it as toilet paper, which is totally out of character for me.

Oh well, maybe one day people will get better. Until then, indulge me in my cathartic rage.

My condolences about the loss of your grandfather and for the injustice of what your family is going through.

Hearing about that reminds me just how fortunate I am to have been born in this country and to avoid taking it for granted in the future any more than I already have in the past.

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by falendar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They can if they choose, if you are going by text, the old testament was succeeded by the new and that's how Christians are now allowed to eat pork wear polyester ect ( yes polyester was banned in the OT) . but the Qur'an never has this so extremists still rely on the kill all who will not convert text. I am religious but I refuse to follow a book written by man because it will inevitably have been corrupted by the writer. the bible and Qur'an both are written by man and in both instances can be proven to have parts written to benefit the writer.

But all books are written by men. So you just don't believe anything?

[Rararboker]

But not all books try to explain something they can't understand or grasp.

[Malice_Mizer]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The bible preaches death to rebellious teenagers (Deuteronomy 21:18-21) ... but I doubt you'll find a Christian pastor who's rounding up the town to stone Billy to death for partying too hard.

Point being: you can't (as illogically as this sounds) judge a faith based solely on its religious text(s).

Except Christians interpret and involve themselves with the Old Testament in a very unique way. Christians do not follow the Old Law to the letter. Christ Himself overturned many conventionally-held beliefs about the Law, such as divorce proceedings, "eye for an eye" justice practices, dietary restrictions, etc. The message of Jesus was that he came to fulfill the law and hand down the primary commandments of humanity, specifically to love God and love your neighbor. This is why Orthodox institutions such as the Catholic Church preach against things such as capital punishment; such a gruesome fate is explicitly supported and commanded in the Old Testament, but you have to read the Old Testament in light of the revelations in the New Testament, which changes literally everything.

So, you can quote from the Old Testament all kinds of things that the early Christian leaders deemed unacceptable with the advent of Christ. Christians don't follow it to the letter. Not to mention that many Christian denominations (namely more Orthodox ones, usually not Protestants) interpret a large portion of the Old Testament as allegory and mythological/symbolic morality tales, or to reveal deeper, symbolic truths. There is an entire genre of exegesis (especially in Catholicism) of how to properly interpret the "dark passages" of the Old Testament (such as the one you mentioned), because they were difficult to reconcile with Christ for early Church leaders.

The Quran (and Hadith) on the other hand, is the authoritative Scripture of Islam that is both a religious and political/governing document. Islam is not some sort of belief system that is apart from otherwise "secular life." Islam was designed to be a whole system: governance, law, spirituality, family relations, etc. I could quote an endless number of lines from the Quran that are explicit orders of how to conduct yourself that modern audiences would find appalling. I mean, a vast majority of the document itself is vengeful, bitter raging against people. You can cite history where Christians acted in un-Christian ways all you'd like, but I challenge you to find a passage in the New Testament that obligated them to do so. You'll find that the exact opposite is true. Martyrdom in Christianity is to willingly and passively die at the hands of persecutors for sticking to what you believe in. Martyrdom in Islam is to kill yourself in pursuit of killing others for a political purpose. Christian history is full of wretched sinners, obviously. But you can't blame the source text for that.

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by Rararboker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But not all books try to explain something they can't understand or grasp.

No not all books. But that wasn't the reasoning put forward either.

[Brutal_X]

all religions are the spawnn of ignorance. no single religion is better, nor worse than the other. I mean, if you don't follow gods rules and "sin" you are sent to a place of eternal fire and suffering. Similarly, if you were not deemed fit in Hitler's eyes (jewish, gay, gypsy) etc., you were sent to be a slave, be gassed, or be burned. I guess the difference is that god loves you for the individual you are. sleep well padawan.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by Sidelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think it's possible, BUT.... keep what happened during the Bosnian War in mind. The Serbs (Orthodox Christians) and Bosniaks (Muslims) were friends and neighbors to each other, from the smallest villages to the bigger cities -- but that changed literally overnight when the Serbs turned on the Bosniaks. It ended with the worst genocide since the Holocaust in WWII. Concentration camps, rape camps, mass executions, mass graves... all of it. It was really awful to read the accounts of Bosniak survivors, who were so completely shocked as they were forced to witness their Serbian "friends & neighbors" systematically rape and murder their loved ones.

Hmm, maybe it's not all that possible after all...


^^^LOL

Rwanda... jesus girl

oh right thugs (any black person) doesnt count

[Mandalore93]

None of the major powerhouse religions are really better or worse mechanically than the others. Everyone cherry picks whatever they need to justify their actions. At the end of the day however, I don't think religion is genuinely the issue the reason for the start of violence. It just makes dehumanizing the enemy a lot easier when you can shout that they're infidels while hacking them down. Islam is a bit behind the times due to a variety of reasons mainly the lack of a secular power binding religion like it did in the west as well as general instability in the region.