Spells: Spell Resist changes

[Daldaen]

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhist...42&source=Live

2002-09-04 11:33 Changed Resistadj from 0 to -300
2002-09-04 11:33 Changed Deletable from 0 to 1
2002-09-04 11:33 Removed Slot 1: Lure(5)

In this case Lure 5 = -300. Meaning it is multiples of 60... So that isn't always consistent.

And I agree with you, the Velious dragon fear had a Lure 6:

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhist...89&source=Live

Date Change
2002-09-04 11:33 Changed Resistadj from 0 to -150
2002-09-04 11:33 Removed Slot 1: Lure(6)
2007-07-05 13:28 Changed Name from Dragon Roar to Dragon Fear

It is called Dragon Fear in Lucy but it's called Dragon Roar in classic. Note it has the same spell ID, 789. This is the one Wuoshi is listed as casting for example.

Look up the classic/Kunark dragon fear. That's the one Naggy/Vox and the Kunark Dragons cast. Dragon Roar ID 981

Lucy claims it has no negative mod and no history of Lure.

I do find the VP dragon AEs peculiar. 4 of the 6 have -150 mods. None of them have Lures in their history.

[Man0warr]

Someone would have to look the other 2 VP dragon AEs up in the spell dat file on the CD to be sure, but I assume that's what the devs are using for this server.

[Daldaen]

Thought they were using a spell data file pulled from an old Harddrive.

But these spell files have proven inaccurate for unknown reasons. Plenty of spell changes have been bug posted and verified recently, so they aren't exactly infallible.

My whole point though was, that having Lures on dragon AEs in Classic and Kunark makes no sense. Resist gear is very weak, people wouldn't be able to resist much at all with -150 on Nagafen's fear back in the day. People would all effectively have 0 resists unless with a baed against these AEs and that simply wasn't the case.

Velious starts to make more sense when gear gets better and they want to make mobs harder. VP I'm still kinda iffy on. I'd tend to lean towards those resist mods being added without them having any lures in the first place (since literally none of those AEs' histories in Lucy show that and Lucy is pretty damn accurate for the history... They would parse every spell file after every patch and run a comparison to see changes I think). Gorenaire's AE I don't quite get either as it has a -150 mod. Pretty sure people talked about it being not too bad to resist back then too.

[Man0warr]

Who says they were meant to be resisted? VP was the pinnacle of raiding in Kunark, and most servers never even had a guild clear it until after Velious. That's the whole point of the Lure/Resist Adjust mod, to increase difficulty - With 255 cap it was easy enough with a bard to reach that with even token resist gear. The biggest determiner of resist is level difference - even with 255 resist and no resist mod you wouldn't resist every AE from a 66 (in case of VP dragons) or level 70 mob.

The fights in VP wouldn't be difficult at all if you could resist Hoshkar's AE even 50% of the time.

[Daldaen]

The people who talk about getting resist gear being crucial back in the day for success on those fights.

Hoshkar's for example people got destroyed by but once they gathered up some disease resist gear they wrecked him.

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/show...oshkar+disease

Mentions 200-250 resists leading to semi-reliable resists.

With a -150 check that would mean they were getting semi-reliable resists as non-60s (most of these posters are mid-high 50s at that point) against 66 dragons with an effective 50-100 Resist. Doesn't see to add up with that resist check being in there.

[Haynar]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The people who talk about getting resist gear being crucial back in the day for success on those fights.

Hoshkar's for example people got destroyed by but once they gathered up some disease resist gear they wrecked him.

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/show...oshkar+disease

Mentions 200-250 resists leading to semi-reliable resists.

With a -150 check that would mean they were getting semi-reliable resists as non-60s (most of these posters are mid-high 50s at that point) against 66 dragons with an effective 50-100 Resist. Doesn't see to add up with that resist check being in there.

Against a level 66 mob, 200-250 resists are gonna get owned with a -150 resist adjust.

With 0 resist adjust, at 60, gonna be about 30% to 50% (ish) resist rate for 200-250 resists, based on level differences.

H

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Against a level 66 mob, 200-250 resists are gonna get owned with a -150 resist adjust.

With 0 resist adjust, at 60, gonna be about 30% to 50% (ish) resist rate for 200-250 resists, based on level differences.

H

This is why I am under the impression those AEs did not have a Lure component, also Lucy gives no indication in its history that those 4 VP AEs had a Lure (very peculiar that it would miss those 4 AEs all together). Same with Gore's AE (only Kunark Dragon to have a -150 outside VP... Fay/Sev/Tal are all 0 resist mod).

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Against a level 66 mob, 200-250 resists are gonna get owned with a -150 resist adjust.

With 0 resist adjust, at 60, gonna be about 30% to 50% (ish) resist rate for 200-250 resists, based on level differences.

H

Haynar, I did a bit of quick googling for you.

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10824 is a fucking gold mine:

Just curious how other guilds are handling Talendor, I find him to be a fun/interesting dragon to hunt, so I thought I would share what I know so far, as well as post a few questions.

First of all, resists, I dont know...this is beginning to confuse me more and more. Yesterday, for the first time in a while, i had a bard grouped with me. My MR was 308, FR 290. At level 57, with resists this high, I still was only resisting about one in 3 waves of either fear or the dot.

Did Sev last night.

Ran PR/MR at 230(ish) each.

Resisted everything.

I dont think Im going to cross 255 again.

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10855

In Hall of Test, the wurms usually has 2 AEs. They hit me full almost all the time with about 100 resist at Lv60. At 130 to 150s resist, the weak AE always can't hit full, but the strong one still hit full most of time. At 200 or so resist, all of their AE almost never hit me full.
Seems resistant is kinda useless for Lv60 or so mobs AEs if you are lower than Lv58. I noticed a big different on trakanon's AE at between Lv57 and Lv58.

So basically I think resists here are still tuned way, way too hard. A L60 PC with 255 resists should be near immune to non-lure spells from a L60 NPC, and mostly resist even a L66 PC. Everyone considered these Kunark raid mobs to be jokes. Of course, if we want to make things a bit harder here . . . [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, it's worth noting how EVERYONE keeps talking level level level. If you aren't 60 (of course, thanks to ChardokAE, who is not 60?) you should be getting destroyed. The flip side to this is I bet at 100+ you should be nearly immune to xp mobs like krups.

[Man0warr]

Lucy is not infallible. They are using a spdat file from the era, those values are correct whatever they are.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lucy is not infallible. They are using a spdat file from the era, those values are correct whatever they are.

Except they aren't.

See Breath of Ro, Winged Death, Glamour of Tunare, Levant, Quivering Veil, Intensify Death, Splurt, etc.

All of those were bugged, proven non-classic and the spell data was changed accordingly.