Question about future custom content

[bleech]

i would like to suggest adding more areas/mobs to certain parts of the world. for instance to expand CB throne room(someone in my group mentioned a second level), or HHK basement(that cave in the first part seems to go nowhere!).

[Danyelle]

I've always kinda liked the idea of, once Velious hits it's finish point (just prior to Luclin release), cloning P99 blue/red and making seperate blue/red servers where the expacs keep going BUT are "reimagined" in the style of original EQ.

Basically like this, let's say the original dev team from Classic-Velious never changed. Sony never reconstructed Verant into SoE (or even if they did it was nothing more than a name change, not a guard change), WoW/EQ2 and other paste-eater MMOs never were made and, as such, there was never any competition for EQ's simpler players that would force EQ to change it's direction in order to compete and remain profitable. Nothing changed at all. But the expacs Luclin+ still got made. what would they look like?

A couple examples, just taking Luclin (as the next expac in line) and "reimagining" it.

Firstly, ignoring graphical styles. Because that is far more of a diverse opinion even among P99's purist community than you might initially estimate. Many more people than you may think at first are ok with, or at least indifferent to, graphical changes. What CAN be universally agreed upon by P99's community is (and, in addition to nostalgia, is why you are all here in the first place) that EQ's content got more and more boring, stat-driven, uninspired, and easy-mode saftey-scissors tier as time went on. To cater to the short bus riders that ultimately overtook modern MMO gaming when it became "cool". So ignoring the graphical changes, what would the content look like?

For one let's take some of Luclin's more critical (negative) points and "classicify" them. Starting with the Nexus:

Problem: Travel became much easier and it paved the way for retard-level Plane of Knowledge in the next expac. Druids and Wizards became poor and cried many non-manly tears.

Solution: The lore for luclin basically states that the knowledge of how to use the Nexus spires was unlocked sometime after Velious, allowing them to travel the way of the fallen Combine empire to their final place of retreat, Luclin, through the use of a trained Wizard. Maybe we add Druids to the mix. Treehuggers can hug stones too. Now rather than placing an npc wizard at each Nexus spire to do it for us like Live did, let's give Wizards/Druids a port spell to the nexus that is quested once Luclin drops from a relatively simple quest (to permit quicker access to the content, but not a sudden flood) and is only scribable/castable at level 60 and ONLY within range of a Norrath bound Nexus spire. IE Wizards/Druids can only cast their port spells at the designated Nexus spires and the spell will not function outside of range of the spires (even within the same zone as one) or from the surface of Luclin itself. People wishing to travel to Luclin, or new sexy kitties wishing to go Norrathside, will need to find a local wizard/druid. This should allow Druids/Wizards to keep their jobs, should eliminate shrinking of the world of Norrath through widespread npc porting, and still allow for a method of accessing the new content.

The Bazaar:

Problem: Many, but most are more complex and economy based so let's just focus on the one that is simpler but also was one of the largest issues. Bazaar, along with the Nexus itself, started the trend of 'hub-zoning' by centralizing trade and killing off old trade zones.

Solution: Don't release the Bazaar, as in the ACTUAL zone itself, at all. Block the zone line in Nexus and shadow Haven with rocks. Instead, assuming this is possible (I'm sure it is it would just take work..), add bazaar functionality to ALL current/classic trade zones (like East Commonlands obviously. Greater Faydark too). Now here's the trick. Doing an item search will pull up sold items from all different trade zones, but you still must interact with the player directly to buy it. Meaning if you're in East Commonlands, and see someone selling an item you want at half the price as an EW vendor, allll the way over in Greater faydark, you then have to run alll the way out there. Wait on boats, or spend extra money donating for a port, and hope the guy still has it when you get there (since you lose bazaar search ability when you zone out and start running, and cannot track the item anymore). Adds a bit of competition into the market, maybe even between trade zones. You could also just not implement Bazaar functionality at all.

AAs:

Problem: They became a grind fest and, as time went on, no longer became "alternate" at all but rather became "required"....in copious amounts.

Solution. for one, do not make them earned through exp gain. Make them a static reward of a set number of AA points from quests along with the typical rewards and regular xp reward (like nilbog suggested earlier). Not just in Luclin+ quests either, but go back and add them as rewards to older quests too. especially pivital ones (epics, Coldain shawl, etc) that can be done by any class/race and is expected to be done by players at LEAST 51+. This should eliminate the grind aspect and ensure not only do people continue to immerse themselves in quests and lore, but that older content retains relevancy. Secondly, you can easily pick and choose what AAs go into the game as well as create custom ones. Making sure the total AA count spent is the same for every class, it's nothing too over powering or game changing that it becomes REQUIRED but at the same time is enough to make people want them, or even FEEL like they need them even though they don't, and eliminates AAs that ultimately destroyed immersion (Innate See Invis.... Innate Enduring Breath....)

Mounts:

Problem: People cry about stuff.

Solution: Stop crying. Mounts honestly should have been in since Classic. What knight on a valiant quest doesn't ride into battle on a trusty steed? I never saw an issue with the way they functioned but you can easily put it up to a vote on how they are obtained and how they function.

Soulbinders:

Problem: They sucked ass.

Solution: Kill them all with fire and napalm (Don't even put them in...ever)

This is just Luclin, you can rebuild each expac as it 'should have been'. Choose when and how level caps raise. Carefully planning it and gear increases to prevent inflating too much and invalidating older content. Preferably keeping everything relevant. A very tough and daunting task but I'm sure with careful planning, and no corporate time frames to abide by, it can be done. You can eliminate hub-zoning and ensure trade zones and starting cities remain useful and populated. You can give the new lore and content the expacs gave, expand upon it to make it even better, and do so without any of the simplifying idiotic gimmicks and crap they were originally pushed with.

I, for one, think this would be fun as hell.

[Rhambuk]

imo after the end of velious we should start a new blue(even red...maybe) and start from beginning with classic timeline/all the fixes that have been put in place since making it a far more classic experience up through velious.

then we move on to new custom content!

[Faisca]

One of the problems with Luclin’s graphics is they make previous expansions’ graphics look old and outdated. Sure, we all know the game is old, but having an added expansion throwing it at our faces every time we play, it’s not a very pleasant thing.

Although people are well aware they are playing an old game, I’m sure they don’t want to be constantly reminded of that every time they are playing it. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Obviously, revamping old zones is not an option because it would kill all the nostalgia.

That said, I find it much more exciting for project 1999 to breakaway completely from the Everquest expansion line after Velious, and begin delivering brand new content, starting with brand new zones with the same classic feel, old graphics and all, designed from scratch.

[tanknspank]

Originally Posted by Danyelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nexus: [ideas]

Travel to Luclin should not be wiz/dru only (not sure if that's what you meant) and definitely not that complicated. Automated means however should cost time or resources. What I would do would be:

Spires - Activation on a 72min (1 game day) timer from Norrath to Luclin at all spires. This is a boat-equivalent method of travel that makes it accessible to all. However, the downbound spires only activate every 72min in rotating fashion. This kills their use as a fast travel.

Alternately a single norrath "super-spire" (NK maybe?) connects to Luclin (both ways) every 72min.

Spire Quest - A LORE mid-level item would drop from mobs. (Rare drop from any caster mob lvl 30-40?) Turning this into a spire NPC would cause you to be immediately ported. This spreads some income to all classes, adds to player economy and provides a more expensive alternative to wiz/dru.

Druid/Wizard spells - A self-only port at 19 and a group port at 29. Why so low? I think the pattern of spells in classic was ideal, allowing access to each continent at 19/29. I forget if Luclin had any special evac locations. In either case I think there should be a couple of them, spread out somewhere in 44/49/low-50s levels.

Originally Posted by Danyelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Bazaar

I think this needs to not be in. Neither the place (artifical hub), neither the mechanic (offline commerce), neither the search. Why not the search? The way it is now, sale success depends on being active (advertising) and the interface (/auction) allows a much greater freedom to haggle or trade. Implementing a search UI would make it impossible to advertise WTB, WTT and services.

Backpack token exchange would be implemented through a few NPCs scattered in the world. A Luclin arena would be added in another location.

Originally Posted by Danyelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

AAs

XP in addition to items as a reason to group and do content (or even solo) is a valuable thing that brings people together. I think the concept of AAs needs splitting in a few different concepts (names could use improvement):

AA-Levels: 10 Class specific AA-s (incremental cost starting at 10). Each one grants a small increase to MaxHP and MaxMana as well as specialized bonuses for each class. For melee this may be small raises in skillcaps, an increase to the damage calculation or a new discipline. For casters this can be meeting prerequisite of a new spell or small casting benefits.

AA-IconicAbilities: Iconic AA abilities granted in the form of "sub-epic" quests. Long, involved quests on par with the epics, but doable with a group of 6.

AA-Expendables: A maximum pool of 20 AAs that can be spent to create temporary effects (something like this was added on live in a later expansion). No idea what effects they gave them on live, but generally long and shared cooldown utility abilities.

Originally Posted by Danyelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Soulbinders:[...] Kill them all with fire and napalm

Agreed. Though as the world gets bigger I could see giving mages the ability to summon a no-rent bindstone. (Reagent: 1 Pearl)

My biggest problem with luclin, however, was the whole moon thing. For me it broke the believability of the game. Personally I would take a selection of Luclin zones and stitch them into a new on-Norrath continent. I'd expand upon the shissar and akhevans (was that the name?) as main enemies in the area and give it more of a consistent theme centered on them.

Originally Posted by Faisca [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One of the problems with Luclin’s graphics is they make previous expansions’ graphics look old and outdated.

This is personal preference, but I found Luclin graphics uglier than the classic. Some models were just plain Models (`old` Vah Shir, etc), animations (new models, many mobs, mounted characters) and textures (all over).

Some were amazing (Ssra, shissar model), but overall I wish the style had stayed closer to classic with just higher poly count and texture resolution.

Originally Posted by Faisca [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Obviously, revamping old zones is not an option because it would kill all the nostalgia.

There was someone on the forum who redid a few textures from classic. I think Gfay and Felwithe were two of them. It looked very nice and didn't change the feel of the game.

[Dragonsblood1987]

Originally Posted by tanknspank [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Travel to Luclin should not be wiz/dru only (not sure if that's what you meant) and definitely not that complicated. Automated means however should cost time or resources. What I would do would be:

Spires - Activation on a 72min (1 game day) timer from Norrath to Luclin at all spires. This is a boat-equivalent method of travel that makes it accessible to all. However, the downbound spires only activate every 72min in rotating fashion. This kills their use as a fast travel.

Alternately a single norrath "super-spire" (NK maybe?) connects to Luclin (both ways) every 72min.

Spire Quest - A LORE mid-level item would drop from mobs. (Rare drop from any caster mob lvl 30-40?) Turning this into a spire NPC would cause you to be immediately ported. This spreads some income to all classes, adds to player economy and provides a more expensive alternative to wiz/dru.

Druid/Wizard spells - A self-only port at 19 and a group port at 29. Why so low? I think the pattern of spells in classic was ideal, allowing access to each continent at 19/29. I forget if Luclin had any special evac locations. In either case I think there should be a couple of them, spread out somewhere in 44/49/low-50s levels.



I think this needs to not be in. Neither the place (artifical hub), neither the mechanic (offline commerce), neither the search. Why not the search? The way it is now, sale success depends on being active (advertising) and the interface (/auction) allows a much greater freedom to haggle or trade. Implementing a search UI would make it impossible to advertise WTB, WTT and services.

Backpack token exchange would be implemented through a few NPCs scattered in the world. A Luclin arena would be added in another location.


XP in addition to items as a reason to group and do content (or even solo) is a valuable thing that brings people together. I think the concept of AAs needs splitting in a few different concepts (names could use improvement):

AA-Levels: 10 Class specific AA-s (incremental cost starting at 10). Each one grants a small increase to MaxHP and MaxMana as well as specialized bonuses for each class. For melee this may be small raises in skillcaps, an increase to the damage calculation or a new discipline. For casters this can be meeting prerequisite of a new spell or small casting benefits.

AA-IconicAbilities: Iconic AA abilities granted in the form of "sub-epic" quests. Long, involved quests on par with the epics, but doable with a group of 6.

AA-Expendables: A maximum pool of 20 AAs that can be spent to create temporary effects (something like this was added on live in a later expansion). No idea what effects they gave them on live, but generally long and shared cooldown utility abilities.



Agreed. Though as the world gets bigger I could see giving mages the ability to summon a no-rent bindstone. (Reagent: 1 Pearl)

My biggest problem with luclin, however, was the whole moon thing. For me it broke the believability of the game. Personally I would take a selection of Luclin zones and stitch them into a new on-Norrath continent. I'd expand upon the shissar and akhevans (was that the name?) as main enemies in the area and give it more of a consistent theme centered on them.


This is personal preference, but I found Luclin graphics uglier than the classic. Some models were just plain Models (`old` Vah Shir, etc), animations (new models, many mobs, mounted characters) and textures (all over).

Some were amazing (Ssra, shissar model), but overall I wish the style had stayed closer to classic with just higher poly count and texture resolution.


There was someone on the forum who redid a few textures from classic. I think Gfay and Felwithe were two of them. It looked very nice and didn't change the feel of the game.

Why would it taking place on the moon kill it for you? Some moons have atmospheres breh

[Taeoz]

I had no idea there might be more content after Velious - this sounds great. P1999 is the true EQ Next.

[Clark]

Luclin plz.

[Danyelle]

Great ideas!

Mine were just suggestions of course, to show how newer expacs could be changed to fit the Classic feel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. The best route, obviously, would be to have P99's development team use their gut instincts on some features, but for others (especially larger ones like these) compile a list of dev or player made change suggestions and run a pole to see what the community likes best. So it can best appeal to everyone.

And keep in mind, it'd be like Nilbog already said, a server clone. The original would still always stay at Velious only. This would just be to continue the fun of the project and keep people enraptured in it beyond the initial nostalgia spike.

I agree about the graphics by the way. I obviously like them, i mean hell I got Luclin models working over here. I even like modern designs. It was how they replaced everything that bothered me. For example, Dragons of Norrath released a new model for spiders. I loved it. Rain of Fear released a new texture for that newer spider model that was supposed to be a revamp of the phase spider in Velious. I loved that too. Buying Rain of Fear gave you an item that illusioned your pet as a 'fear corrupted' phase spider. I named my pet Phasers (you can name pets permanently on Live now..) and started roleplaying it as a phase spider rather than an elemental. I loved it. Obviously i enjoyed the new spider models....what I didn't enjoy is when they first made it...and went allll the way back to every old zone and ripped out the Classic spider models as well and replaced them with the new one. Old and new should have coexisted. Zones shouldn't have been revamped unless they were gonna be a separate instance (like they did in House of Thule) etc. But unfortunately they seem to have learned that lesson way too late. Live will never get the old Freeport back [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[tanknspank]

Originally Posted by Danyelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Great ideas!

Mine were just suggestions of course, to show how newer expacs could be changed to fit the Classic feel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. The best route, obviously, would be to have P99's development team use their gut instincts on some features, but for others (especially larger ones like these) compile a list of dev or player made change suggestions and run a pole to see what the community likes best. So it can best appeal to everyone.

Thank you! Same with mine. I have fun brainstorming game design.

Design by community tends to worry me because in many MMOs they lead to trivialization as people ask for easier and easier. If they do any polls I hope it's after thoroughly filtering any ideas through the classic filter before opening the valid ones for polling.

Originally Posted by Danyelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Zones shouldn't have been revamped unless they were gonna be a separate instance (like they did in House of Thule) etc. But unfortunately they seem to have learned that lesson way too late. Live will never get the old Freeport back [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agreed. Keep the classic zones as they are. If something is broken enough to need fixing, fix it in place. Add NPCs or quests here and there when needed, but keep the layout the same.