Root resist?

[koros]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've yet to see any evidence brought forth regarding this base "5% chance to get resisted on all spells by even level 1 mobs" notion.

There were often screenshots posted of ice comets being resisted by moss snakes due to that very base chance. It was quite well documented. I'm at work at the moment, but I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find a screenshot showing as such.

[Daldaen]

Please do so when you find free time. Because in my extensive bug reporting, though I've never specifically searched on this topic, I haven't seen this. Nor do I remember it.

I understand the thought process behind it since that's how Tradeskills work. I just never remember spells having a fixed failure rate regardless of level.

[koros]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please do so when you find free time. Because in my extensive bug reporting, though I've never specifically searched on this topic, I haven't seen this. Nor do I remember it.

I understand the thought process behind it since that's how Tradeskills work. I just never remember spells having a fixed failure rate regardless of level.

Here's a quick post referencing it that I quickly googled. This is from an eq2 forum talking about ice comet in eq1 at 50.

"
Tom is correct. I played a Wizard on one account and a Rogue on another from the day the game went live.

I was one of the first 50s on my server, and when I went through the NUTTY quest to get the Ice Comet spell, I almost passed out when the first moss snake I cast it on resisted it. (gg Sony.)

The second one, however, got spanked for 1150 dd.

At level 50, it would use a little over a full bubble of mana...and to get a resist REALLY pi$$ed me off. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
"

https://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...-comet.171551/

When I get some time I'll find an era appropriate reference, but that was the first result.

[Scrubosaur]

Lol that is the same ol eq myth regurgitated by someone on a random forum. It's funny though that is always ice comet that gets resisted and always vs a snake. I have read/heard that story 100 times from people that it actually happened to. Still funny every time though even if it's not true.

[koros]

Originally Posted by Scrubosaur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol that is the same ol eq myth regurgitated by someone on a random forum. It's funny though that is always ice comet that gets resisted and always vs a snake. I have read/heard that story 100 times from people that it actually happened to. Still funny every time though even if it's not true.

You're just flat wrong. Here's a forum posting on level 1 mobs resisting things that's actually from 1999. For the record, people used moss snakes vs ice comet because people framed the context as "weakest mob resisting strongest spell"

Dorian Brytestar
12/15/99


hehe that is quite a difference =)
I have had rats resist root as well as orc pawns sometimes..This was not long ago
either!
--
Dorian Brytestar
Lvl 40 High Elf Cleric of Tunare
Povar

: My mistake, it was a pic text box, showing a Decaying Skeleton resisting the


: level 39 root being cast by a level 42 Wizard. It's on the Graffe's Wizard
: Compilation page, at
: http://www.graffe.com/
:
: Sorry for the mixup. I honestly thought it was Ice Comet when I looked at the
: page before.
:
: Marc Fuller

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/ice$20comet$20resist%7Csort:date/alt.games.everquest/TJZvN8T5qio/AFuaJ5fAploJ

[tanknspank]

There's two separate issues here. One is the rate of root breaking (on tick, from damage, whatever). That did need some nerf. Is it like classic now? I can't speak to that as I haven't root-rotted much.

The second issue is the calculation of resists in general. I'm not sure if that needed a boost, but the boost it received it's more severe than it was on live.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by tanknspank [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's two separate issues here. One is the rate of root breaking (on tick, from damage, whatever). That did need some nerf. Is it like classic now? I can't speak to that as I haven't root-rotted much.

The second issue is the calculation of resists in general. I'm not sure if that needed a boost, but the boost it received it's more severe than it was on live.

i've said before that i think the new formula needs some tweaking, especially in the area of players being able to resist green mobs casting on them.

however, i think casters here have been spoiled for way too long. i had never gotten a resist on a charm spell (on my bard, chanter, or necro) unless the mob was out of level range of spell until the last patch...i don't mean it was rare, i mean it never happened. casters here have reaped the benefits on non-classic resists in their favor for YEARS. so, while i think tweaking is needed its hard for me to feel too badly right now after personally taking advantage of this for so long. i'm more than due a few resists---even resist deaths.

as for the hard-wired 5% thing, i'm not sure if its correct. i will say though, that I played a wizard in live during classic as my main. i can recall getting green mob resists---even on lvl 1 mobs when i was casting at max level. like many folks, the first thing i did after getting ice comet was gate to gfay and blow random junk up...and i did get a resist or two while playing around that day. i don't know if it was a hard-wired 1%, 5%, or .01% chance...but it did happen. graffe's (the classic wizard forum) had threads regarding resists. i doubt it was a hard wired 5% chance to fail because something like that would have been extremely easy to parse out...and i don't recall seeing any reliable posts about it. nonetheless, i think the pnp role playing game analogy holds true---and was built into EQ---there should always be a chance of success or failure on any die role, regardless of level or other formula. i just don't think it was exactly 5%, and my intuition is that at the extremes of the curve (max lvl char vs lvl 1 mob) it was considerably less.

has anyone here actually tested out the 5% hypothesis on p99 since the last patch? it would be very easy to confirm or refute.

in any case, in the long run, i think this patch is good. it moves the game-play forward in the right direction (more like it was in classic) despite needing some tweaking. like other major patches (sit aggro, removing spell lists, etc.) players will eventually see its merits. by the way casters...keep enjoying other non-classic benefits like ducking out of spells, no spell book, etc...casters in classic EQ are so over powered compared to straight melee. charm and root breaks? dd resists? its part of the reason why some folks preferred to play the less explosive but more consistently reliable melee classes during classic era.

[brecon]

There have been a series of recent changes that have really changed game dynamics.

Think about giants. They are now (1) unstunnable and unmezzable, (2) constantly resist or break high level roots, and (3) constantly resist enchanter and bard charm (i had a DB giant resist 6 charms in a row yesterday, prior to patch resists and charm breaks on 18 second charm were occasional but infrequent). CC is next to impossible now on these mobs.

I can't say whether this is classic or not, but it's certainly detrimental to the style of gameplay that has been on this server. Enchanters were prized before because they are the best CC, but in a pinch, you could root CC, Necs and Bards could ghetto CC, and you could charm CC giants. Now, none of these are consistent.

[tanknspank]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i had never gotten a resist on a charm spell (on my bard, chanter, or necro) unless the mob was out of level range of spell until the last patch...i don't mean it was rare, i mean it never happened.

I've had resists on appropriate level charm before the patch (Charm Animal vs teen-level blues/lt blues) but fewer than I would have expected in classic. So that did need some boost. It feels however the resist boost was too much across the board. Whereas I think the nerf to charm/root/etc should have been less so on resist and more on the chance to break.

One reason I didn't use charm too much in classic was not the initial resistance, but how short/unreliable its duration was. Here, before the patch, the initial resistance was low, but particularly the duration was almost always very long. Once you had it, it was very reliable to keep that for a good duration, unlike the 1-2-3 tick charms you often had in classic.

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

casters here have reaped the benefits on non-classic resists in their favor for YEARS. so, while i think tweaking is needed its hard for me to feel too badly right now after personally taking advantage of this for so long. i'm more than due a few resists---even resist deaths.

I can understand the sentiment, but at the same time the benefits reaped by a 60 enchanter who could farm to their heart's content aren't something the new, untwinked 30 shaman trying to root-rot should pay for.

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

as for the hard-wired 5% thing, i'm not sure if its correct.

I agree with you. I (hazily) seem to remember getting resists on ridiculously green mobs, but I feel they were lower than 5%. Likewise, the odd super-greenie managed to land spells on my 50/60, but that was extremely rare. Fire/ice/poison/disease seemed to land a lot more than magic as well in these situations (probably because of partial not binary resist?).

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

has anyone here actually tested out the 5% hypothesis on p99 since the last patch?

I'm going to start gathering some data. If anyone wants to help out or donate clarity, it'd be much appreciated.

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

in any case, in the long run, i think this patch is good. it moves the game-play forward in the right direction (more like it was in classic) despite needing some tweaking.

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

like other major patches (sit aggro, removing spell lists, etc.) players will eventually see its merits.

I agree it's a good change. Root and charm were far too easy/safe. But I think it's not yet time to call work on resist rates/system done.

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

charm and root breaks? dd resists? its part of the reason why some folks preferred to play the less explosive but more consistently reliable melee classes during classic era.

I remember classic being filled with a lot of casters too. Bards and enchanters were far less common however. Wizards were a lot more common however (I guess people didn't understand the efficiency calculations as much vs rogue). And there were a lot of rangers.

[Decad]

Paralyzing Earth, Fetter all have a chance to break randomly with a very random duration on live. Unlike the long lasting duration here

Root was a last line of option for many caster classes, usually to park mobs and thus buying them slightly more random time to allow an enchanter to mez, or players to run for the zone, casters to cast gate etc.

On live enchanters are always in demand for the CC...via mesmerization line of spells. Not via roots.

Using roots as CC would only mean any other root class is a CC class. Not the traditional enchanter mesmerization line. And there are several enchanters here who are exactly doing that, using root and not mez line of spells.