Should the server provide "Best of the Best" style PvP + rewards?

[Zuranthium]

Why are you pointing to a money chart as if that equals skill in gaming, Kergan?

Also, there are different skills in gaming. Things like Magic: the Gathering are purely cognitive, whereas shooters and other games aren't as much about that and instead also measure physical aim/reflexes/how quickly and constantly you can click buttons or a movement pad.

Then you have things like Guild Wars 1, the best PvP game ever, which combines the cognitive "deck building" and decision-making of Magic the Gathering with real-time play and extensive teamwork.

Everquest PvP has some things in common with Guild Wars 1. All spell casters have a "skill bar" of 8 skills, so you need to make decisions before the fight about exactly what you want on your skill bar. There are many classes to choose from, so you also have to think about your team composition, and once you get into the fight there is the melee/caster/debuff/healer dynamic happening.

Everquest PvP is extremely primitive compared to Guild Wars 1 PvP, of course, but the greater focus of this style of gameplay for Red99 is actually to improve the entire game as a whole. If you limit the amount of people per guild who are able to compete for these "Best of the Best" prizes (which should be hard-to-acquire PvE items), then we would see a greater number of guilds in the game. There wouldn't be as much incentive to form the giant zerg guilds, because the players wouldn't be getting the benefits.

With zerg guilds extinct, the entire game would become more involving for everyone. The PvE side would become more of an actual game again, because you'd have less people to use and would need to actually put more thought and strategy into fights, and World-based PvP would become much more constant and exciting.

[Kergan]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why are you pointing to a money chart as if that equals skill in gaming, Kergan?

Also, there are different skills in gaming. Things like Magic: the Gathering are purely cognitive, whereas shooters and other games aren't as much about that and instead also measure physical aim/reflexes/how quickly and constantly you can click buttons or a movement pad.

Then you have things like Guild Wars 1, the best PvP game ever, which combines the cognitive "deck building" and decision-making of Magic the Gathering with real-time play and extensive teamwork.

Everquest PvP has some things in common with Guild Wars 1. All spell casters have a "skill bar" of 8 skills, so you need to make decisions before the fight about exactly what you want on your skill bar. There are many classes to choose from, so you also have to think about your team composition, and once you get into the fight there is the melee/caster/debuff/healer dynamic happening.

Everquest PvP is extremely primitive compared to Guild Wars 1 PvP, of course, but the greater focus of this style of gameplay for Red99 is actually to improve the entire game as a whole. If you limit the amount of people per guild who are able to compete for these "Best of the Best" prizes (which should be hard-to-acquire PvE items), then we would see a greater number of guilds in the game. There wouldn't be as much incentive to form the giant zerg guilds, because the players wouldn't be getting the benefits.

With zerg guilds extinct, the entire game would become more involving for everyone. The PvE side would become more of an actual game again, because you'd have less people to use and would need to actually put more thought and strategy into fights, and World-based PvP would become much more constant and exciting.

I'm not going to comment on most of your post other than to say I completely disagree with it and it is so ridiculously non-classic and against the core of EQ I don't even know why you bother posting it because it has a 1000% chance of never happening...

That being said:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why are you pointing to a money chart as if that equals skill in gaming, Kergan?

Because the skill cap is so high you can actually have competitive gaming, and therefor prizes awarded. You really need to be a professional level e-sport gamer to take home cash. Only games with an exceptionally high skill cap can function in a cash for wins environment and attract professional level gamers. In a low skill cap game you lack the ability to consistently win and so the best gamers won't play your game. It's the same reason why there are professional poker players but no professional slots players.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Kergan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not going to comment on most of your post other than to say I completely disagree with it and it is so ridiculously non-classic and against the core of EQ

It's not against the core of EQ in the least. Exactly the opposite.

The way people play Red99 is against the core of EQ. The game is supposed to be about adventure, danger, teamwork, and SKILL. All of that gets removed when you just zerg.

What I propose would help to bring back exactly what the game is supposed to be about.

Originally Posted by Kergan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because the skill cap is so high you can actually have competitive gaming, and therefor prizes awarded. You really need to be a professional level e-sport gamer to take home cash.

Yes, but many of those games are not the epitome of skill (nor fun) in gaming. They are just the most POPULAR.

Magic the Gathering is far better than Hearthstone, for example. Hearthstone simply has a better online interface and is easier to play, hence why it is doing well.

The same thing can be said about League of Legends. It is the #1 game on that list, but it is far below other games in terms of skill and how rewarding team-based gameplay can potentially be.

Originally Posted by Kergan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Only games with an exceptionally high skill cap can function in a cash for wins environment and attract professional level gamers. In a low skill cap game you lack the ability to consistently win and so the best gamers won't play your game. It's the same reason why there are professional poker players but no professional slots players.

A dumb statement.

If a game with a low skill cap requires very little monetary investment and gives people a chance at winning money, then there will be people who play it "professionally".

Playing slots requires significant investment, generally, and also has no skill involved at all. You can't compare a no-skill game (aka, lottery) to a low or mid-skill game. Also, just because a game requires some amount of skill doesn't mean it is a great game.

There is additionally the aspect of time investment. Some low-skill games require a huge time investment to become "elite" (that's what p99 is, currently).

[Kergan]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not against the core of EQ in the least. Exactly the opposite.

The way people play Red99 is against the core of EQ. The game is supposed to be about adventure, danger, teamwork, and SKILL. All of that gets removed when you just zerg.

What I propose would help to bring back exactly what the game is supposed to be about.



Yes, but many of those games are not the epitome of skill (nor fun) in gaming. They are just the most POPULAR.

Magic the Gathering is far better than Hearthstone, for example. Hearthstone simply has a better online interface and is easier to play, hence why it is doing well.

The same thing can be said about League of Legends. It is the #1 game on that list, but it is far below other games in terms of skill and how rewarding team-based gameplay can potentially be.



A dumb statement.

If a game with a low skill cap requires very little monetary investment and gives people a chance at winning money, then there will be people who play it "professionally".

Playing slots requires significant investment, generally, and also has no skill involved at all. You can't compare a no-skill game (aka, lottery) to a low or mid-skill game. Also, just because a game requires some amount of skill doesn't mean it is a great game.

There is additionally the aspect of time investment. Some low-skill games require a huge time investment to become "elite" (that's what p99 is, currently).

Disagree with every single thing you just said, just gonna leave it alone.

[DRAGONBAIT]

Originally Posted by Kergan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because the skill cap is so high you can actually have competitive gaming, and therefor prizes awarded. You really need to be a professional level e-sport gamer to take home cash. Only games with an exceptionally high skill cap can function in a cash for wins environment and attract professional level gamers. In a low skill cap game you lack the ability to consistently win and so the best gamers won't play your game. It's the same reason why there are professional poker players but no professional slots players.

man u always speaking as if u knew everything..do u really have any clue about competitive gaming? im going to throw in here a example, see if u get it theyre both 2 popular games, hon and lol, wich one has a deeper skill cap? wich one is hardest? yet wich one attracts more players and bigger prizes? now think for urself. ur whole argument falls downs by itself.

[Mac Drettj]

Didn't read

What's the elevator pitch?

[Zuranthium]

Why would you have to write a code for any particular character? Can't you just spawn the items and then de-spawn them when the PvP day is over?

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why would you have to write a code for any particular character? Can't you just spawn the items and then de-spawn them when the PvP day is over?

Sure...

#gi 12345
#gi 12344
#gi 12343
#gi 12342
etc...

And we would have to do that for each character. The simpler solution would be to throw up an NPC with a quest trigger like the beta buff bots, with an additional text trigger to reset the equipment afterwards. Interestingly enough Nilbog has recently expressed some interest in doing some custom event scripting, so that we can have events more regularly and with less effort on both servers. That's probably still a ways down the road, but it makes a setup like you guys have been talking about much more doable.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The simpler solution would be to throw up an NPC with a quest trigger like the beta buff bots, with an additional text trigger to reset the equipment afterwards. Interestingly enough Nilbog has recently expressed some interest in doing some custom event scripting, so that we can have events more regularly and with less effort on both servers. That's probably still a ways down the road, but it makes a setup like you guys have been talking about much more doable.

That would be really, really great...and necessary for this server to be relevant.

The playerbase needs a huge incentive to stay in medium-sized guilds and thus create a bunch of different warring factions that are competitive with each other. It not only vastly improves the frequency and quality of the PvP, but also significantly improves the quality of the PvE since you can't just zerg everything down with a huge blob of players.

[Farzo]

Great idea OP but people will find a reason to whine. Then the people donating their time to run it will lose their will and /quit.