What are some flaws in classic EQ that you actually like?

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Clark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Spell book is terrible [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.], but strafe running is good.

I really like the idea of the book, if downtime wasn't so extreme. I definitely remember it creating some real tension when fighting in many areas.

[Supaskillz]

It's hard to know what is considered a flaw.

Many people consider inability of many classes to solo a flaw, I love this feature.
Many consider the difficulty of travel for everyone but druids and wizards a flaw, again I love this. A journey should take time.

In regards to class balance I think it is more balanced than people give it credit for. The most effective soloers are often not the most effective group members or not the most useful on raid mobs. The best group tanks are not the best raid tanks. The best healers sucks at soloing, whereas other healing classes can solo quite well. Even rangers who are the subject of many jokes, can do decent dps(so are always being compared to rogues and monks) get tons of great utility in root, snare, sow, invis, that other melee dps would love to have.

[Voland]

Originally Posted by Frug [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Strafe running.

No strafe running in Live?

[Voland]

Originally Posted by Castigate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Clickies refreshing spell gems and strafe running.

It would be nice if they didn't allow strafe running in the naked race they had on Red a few days ago. If you can outrun the monsters, it kind of defeats the purpose.

[Wiery]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No it isn't a direct correlation.

Classes could be incredibly imbalanced and there could be no diversity at all. Such as a game with classes named "Warrior", "Fighter", "Brawler", "Knight" that all do exactly the same thing, just with different skill names, but Warrior hits for 500 and Fighter hits for 400 and Brawler hits for 300, etc.

That's actually how melee fighting works in Everquest. You just auto-attack and click on your "kick" buttons when they refresh and the amount of damage you do is solely dependent on your class (aside from gear, of course).

Imbalance has nothing to do with diversity. Everquest could be far more balanced AND have far more diversity at the same time.

Imbalance has everything to do with diversity. This applies to games as much as in the real world. If everything was balanced, there would be no diversity.

For the sake of the conversation at hand, lets look at it from another perspective. If the classes were "balanced", all tank classes could tank all mobs with the same effectiveness, all dps classes would provide the same total number of dps given any encounter, all healers could effectively heal all members of a similarly comprised group, and all classes could solo with equal effectiveness. Because it's not balanced, classes have niches in the game, which is something that I prefer.

If you're looking for homogenization and the same abilities with different names that function nearly identically on a surface level, then Warcraft pretty well has that perfected.

[Wiery]

Originally Posted by Supaskillz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In regards to class balance I think it is more balanced than people give it credit for. The most effective soloers are often not the most effective group members or not the most useful on raid mobs. The best group tanks are not the best raid tanks. The best healers sucks at soloing, whereas other healing classes can solo quite well. Even rangers who are the subject of many jokes, can do decent dps(so are always being compared to rogues and monks) get tons of great utility in root, snare, sow, invis, that other melee dps would love to have.

Agreed. In this sense, the game as whole has a good harmony.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by Wiery [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Imbalance has everything to do with diversity. This applies to games as much as in the real world. If everything was balanced, there would be no diversity.

For the sake of the conversation at hand, lets look at it from another perspective. If the classes were "balanced", all tank classes could tank all mobs with the same effectiveness, all dps classes would provide the same total number of dps given any encounter, all healers could effectively heal all members of a similarly comprised group, and all classes could solo with equal effectiveness. Because it's not balanced, classes have niches in the game, which is something that I prefer.

If you're looking for homogenization and the same abilities with different names that function nearly identically on a surface level, then Warcraft pretty well has that perfected.

you wrong see how EQ2 handles balanced but different healers, as well as mitigation tanks vs avoidance tanks.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Wiery [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Imbalance has everything to do with diversity. This applies to games as much as in the real world. If everything was balanced, there would be no diversity.

You have much to learn, apparently about both game design and life. There are hundreds of ethnicities in the World. It's generally considered that they are "balanced" - australians are equal japanese, spanish are equal to french, etc. And, yet, these cultures are all very different.

Originally Posted by Wiery [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you're looking for homogenization and the same abilities with different names that function nearly identically on a surface level, then Warcraft pretty well has that perfected.

THAT'S NOT WHAT BALANCE IS.

Holy shit.

Balance is taking any number of DIFFERENT variables and combining them such that one set of variables is roughly equal to another set of variables.

Originally Posted by Wiery [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For the sake of the conversation at hand, lets look at it from another perspective. If the classes were "balanced", all tank classes could tank all mobs with the same effectiveness, all dps classes would provide the same total number of dps given any encounter, all healers could effectively heal all members of a similarly comprised group, and all classes could solo with equal effectiveness.

It's not just about the numbers, it's about the METHOD. Fighting as a Warrior should be much different than fighting as a Monk. Fighting as a Ranger should be much different than fighting as a Rogue. It's about different playstyles and each class should require skill and experience to play very well. There are all kinds of mechanics that can be implemented in a game to make each class distinct.

If they were well balanced, they wouldn't be equally as good as the other in any given encounter. They would be equally as good as the other over the course of a number of different encounters and at the highest level of play. Moreover, if you had a great amount of diversity AND a great amount of balance, then you would be able to mix and match a wide variety of characters to create a strong team. Each team would be very different, though. That's where part of the fun comes in.

As far as numbers go, assume that each "tank" has 4 different attributes. Now assume that "Tank A" could do each of those those things at a rating of 7 + 3 + 8 + 2. His score is 20. Now assume that "Tank B" could do each of those things at a rating of 4 + 6 + 4 + 6. His score is also 20, but his skills are completely different. That's balance. They would each be better than the other in different situations and in varying degrees. It needs to be more complex than this example and some abilities can't even be strictly "rated", but that is the overall idea.

[Wiery]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you wrong see how EQ2 handles balanced but different healers, as well as mitigation tanks vs avoidance tanks.

You can't even type a coherent sentence, so it's hard to take you seriously. Remember, there is no time limit on the submit button.

[Wiery]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have much to learn, apparently about both game design and life. There are hundreds of ethnicities in the World. It's generally considered that they are "balanced" - australians are equal japanese, spanish are equal to french, etc. And, yet, these cultures are all very different.

What is your measure of balance?

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

THAT'S NOT WHAT BALANCE IS.

Yes it is.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Holy shit.

Calm your tits.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Balance is taking any number of DIFFERENT variables and combining them such that one set of variables is roughly equal to another set of variables.

When one's white hit does not equal the other's white hit, there is an imbalance. When one's amount of dps output offsets the amount of incoming damage is equal to the other's dps plus healing, rendering the single white hit variance insignificant, then there is balance. Is that what you're trying to say? If so, EQ is not balanced and is therefore diverse.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not just about the numbers, it's about the METHOD. Fighting as a Warrior should be much different than fighting as a Monk. Fighting as a Ranger should be much different than fighting as a Rogue. It's about different playstyles and each class should require skill and experience to play very well. There are all kinds of mechanics that can be implemented in a game to make each class distinct.

If they were well balanced, they wouldn't be equally as good as the other in any given encounter. They would be equally as good as the other over the course of a number of different encounters and at the highest level of play. Moreover, if you had a great amount of diversity AND a great amount of balance, then you would be able to mix and match a wide variety of characters to create a strong team. Each team would be very different, though. That's where part of the fun comes in.

As far as numbers go, assume that each "tank" had 4 different attributes. Now assume that "Tank A" could do each of those those things at a rating of 7 + 3 + 8 + 2. His score is 20. Now assume that "Tank B" could do each of those things at a rating of 4 + 6 + 4 + 6. His score is also 20, but his skills are completely different. That's balance. They would each be better than the other in different situations and in varying degrees.

I don't disagree with this.