Words Suck

[Gaffin 7.0]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Get out of my thread Gaffin before I e-curbstomp your drooling ass back to the stone age where you belong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OORnMYoWX9c

[Mac Dretti]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for your informative contribution, Retti. Well-researched, well-written - one could not ask for a finer RnF post from a neglectful father.

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[quido]

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[Infuriati]

Shut the fuck up.

[Nikon]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Song lyrics are like short-duration literature for retards.

While I don't agree with quite everything you said, this shit was funny.

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

most songs

Originally Posted by Derubael

Many songs

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I don't disagree that there are an overwhelming number of stupid lyrics out there, but to put to say they are all dumb, unintelligent, or incapable of presenting a thought or feeling in a valid, expressive, and ultimately succinct way is wrong.

Music is art. Well, some music is art. And art is a way to express thought or feeling. How much you give or take from a particular set of lyrics in a song is dependent on how you view that art. Are you able to identify with the lyrics? Does the message speak to you? Are you moved by what you hear? I understand your statement of "if the lyrics can't stand alone, it's not an intelligent means of expression" and also assume you extend that to the music itself (IE, if the melody can't stand alone, the melody is probably shit), but I would firmly argue that the combination of these two things can expand a piece of music's influence and means of expression.

Would Beethoven's 5th be better with lyrics? No, but he was also a musical savant, and likely felt more comfortable expressing his feelings and thoughts through music rather than words.

To expand upon this, even Beethoven's most expressive pieces of music were succinct works of expression. If you can't describe, relate, or express an emotion in a short period of time, it is likely you don't understand the emotion or thought to begin with. To say that a 5 minute song with lyrics is incapable of expressing thought or emotion better than a piece of writing can is a subjective statement.

Furthermore, to say that lyrics alone cannot do what the written or spoken word can do is a fallacy, as lyrics are spoken words, and almost always written as well. To add upon this, if poetry is a valid or acceptable means (to you) of expression for thought or emotion, your entire argument just imploded because lyrics are poetry.

To summarize, yes, there are many stupid lyrics. There are some 'artists' who's entire career is built on stupid lyrics. But since lyrics, writing, and instrumental music meant to express or invoke emotion are almost entirely subjective works, it's impossible to say what's 'better' or 'worse' at completing this goal. The combination of melody and lyrics together can enhance a piece of musics overall ability to invoke an emotional response in the listener, or expand upon the songs method of expressing a thought or feeling. Lastly, stating that the written or spoken word is better at accomplishing this goal than a set of lyrics is a cyclical argument, as lyrics are often both written and spoken.

tl;dr? Saying all lyrics are stupid or that written/spoken/instrumental expression of thought or emotion is a 'better' medium, is stupid.

still pretty sure i got trolled, but I'm bored today so I thought i'd play ball [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Heebo]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never feel like a big mac - that shit is disgusting. And I would certainly take filet mignon for most meals very gladly =)

HOWEVER, your parallel holds no water here. The other side of such a parallel would imply that sometimes you need a break from good music to hear some shit music, but even then the cost of both are the same unlike with a filet vs McDonald's.

TRY AGAIN BRO

I wasn't comparing good music to bad music. I was comparing the words found in books to the words found in songs. You don't always need 1,000 pages to convey an idea.

Enlightenment comes in many forms - if you fail to recognize brilliance in simplicity that says more about your IQ than those who do.

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes

A+ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Mac Dretti]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't disagree that there are an overwhelming number of stupid lyrics out there, but to put to say they are all dumb, unintelligent, or incapable of presenting a thought or feeling in a valid, expressive, and ultimately succinct way is wrong.

Music is art. Well, some music is art. And art is a way to express thought or feeling. How much you give or take from a particular set of lyrics in a song is dependent on how you view that art. Are you able to identify with the lyrics? Does the message speak to you? Are you moved by what you hear? I understand your statement of "if the lyrics can't stand alone, it's not an intelligent means of expression" and also assume you extend that to the music itself (IE, if the melody can't stand alone, the melody is probably shit), but I would firmly argue that the combination of these two things can expand a piece of music's influence and means of expression.

Would Beethoven's 5th be better with lyrics? No, but he was also a musical savant, and likely felt more comfortable expressing his feelings and thoughts through music rather than words.

To expand upon this, even Beethoven's most expressive pieces of music were succinct works of expression. If you can't describe, relate, or express an emotion in a short period of time, it is likely you don't understand the emotion or thought to begin with. To say that a 5 minute song with lyrics is incapable of expressing thought or emotion better than a piece of writing can is a subjective statement.

Furthermore, to say that lyrics alone cannot do what the written or spoken word can do is a fallacy, as lyrics are spoken words, and almost always written as well. To add upon this, if poetry is a valid or acceptable means (to you) of expression for thought or emotion, your entire argument just imploded because lyrics are poetry.

To summarize, yes, there are many stupid lyrics. There are some 'artists' who's entire career is built on stupid lyrics. But since lyrics, writing, and instrumental music meant to express or invoke emotion are almost entirely subjective works, it's impossible to say what's 'better' or 'worse' at completing this goal. The combination of melody and lyrics together can enhance a piece of musics overall ability to invoke an emotional response in the listener, or expand upon the songs method of expressing a thought or feeling. Lastly, stating that the written or spoken word is better at accomplishing this goal than a set of lyrics is a cyclical argument, as lyrics are often both written and spoken.

tl;dr? Saying all lyrics are stupid or that written/spoken/instrumental expression of thought or emotion is a 'better' medium, is stupid.

still pretty sure i got trolled, but I'm bored today so I thought i'd play ball [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hmmm

[quido]

I in no way fail to recognize the brilliance and beauty of simplicity, Heebo! We are again debating something completely outside of my claim. I generally pride myself on being rather succinct when the situation calls for it. My qualm with lyrics is not that they're simple - it's that they're stupid; it's just a coincidence that most lyrics are both simple AND stupid. Attempting to lump shitty song lyrics in with other wonderful yet simple things simply because they're simple simply doesn't make sense to me.

Italian cuisine is generally described as "simple" and is some of the tastiest out there!

The way I see it is they're not really related. Whether a song lyric is shitty or not has very little to do with its level of simplicity. It's really about how tacky and terse and utterly annoying it is.

Show me what lyrics you like and I'll explain to you why they're fucking stupid.