To find ze zolution, ve mus virst identify ze proplem.

[Galacticus]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Twink kills you in unrest..

Chase him around with your friends and any toon that wants an ikky regent until he dies or plugs.

Wait at zone line to finish him. Gain loot.

I got my first 3 fbss and rubi bp this way.

With item loot you have a reason to fight.

Non twink 1-50 literally has not a single item of real value. If you have it it could be re purchased for like 50pp or 17 or so nybright sisters kills..so its no worry.

I am not seeing how bringing item loot would cause more players to want to play here.

[Gustoo]

Because server is fun. Items are cheap and PvP is worth doing AKA rewarding instead of just an inconvenience.

[Gustoo]

At present PvP only wastes an exper, pharmer, or raiders time.

The only reason to attack someone is for the grief of ruining their exp grind, ruining their ability to kill a raid target, or revenge for previous grief to you or revenge for forumquest insult.

So when an exper dies he usually just leaves. He wants to level up and there is zero reason to fight a twink or any PK for a silly reason like pride. So he gets killed after killing a scarab while he is sitting at 12% hp, or OOM, gets his dead body and tries to find a place where he won't be interrupted.

No PvP, just murderers and victims.

[mitic]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At present PvP only wastes an exper, pharmer, or raiders time.

The only reason to attack someone is for the grief of ruining their exp grind, ruining their ability to kill a raid target, or revenge for previous grief to you or revenge for forumquest insult.

the grief to ruin someone's exp grind is subpar to the grief stealing someone's hard earned pixels. item loot is the only thing I don't miss from classic. the pve environment (camping stuff for hours) is not favorable to item loot.

the only way I could see item loot work is insignia vendors. for example turn in 5 insignias (5kills) to receive a fbss, 10 insignias for cloak if flames etc. but then, this wouldn't be classic and I hate custom content besides this being easily exploitable.

[mitic]

BUT there is one way item loot might work:

1) make every item soulbound but lootable -> disable bankslots except coins

3) make bags lootable too

4) make highend lore-items not destroyable

5) very short loot-timer (30secs)

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by Galacticus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not seeing how bringing item loot would cause more players to want to play here.

Honestly i dont care about red, to me its a lost cause. It had an abortion of a first 18 months, will be hard to recuperate from that. I meant item loss only if theres going to be a new server. WIth a fresh start, and custom events that drop no drop shit, then item loot becomes a big plus as it keeps PVP interesting. Lets just say Nihilum won that failbox and let em try to get that zerg going again with no xp loss from the start. The xp rate would have to be 2.0 to 3.0 as weve all done the grind many times by now.

Its not grief heavy because of the no drop sets that would be patched in. Without that id say item loot would cause a pop drop. But with no drop events, people fighting over those event mobs for no drop gear, PVP interesting with downing hard twinks resulting in a possible item loot, Gfay being a trade town like on Rallos, would make things fun again.

It would have to have no PnP. Let players sort things out. With no xp loss from the start casuals have a chance to gather themselves, gear up on custom no drop loot (not so good gear but better than naked), and if griefer twinks wanna mess with those newbs, theyre going to have to put gear on the line. Theyre going to have to deal with social consequences of getting hunted by hordes of newbies without the EZ mode of never risking any gear to go around griefing. Twinks would have the most to lose from griefing, and newbs the most to gain from hunting these griefers. Right now its the other way around. Lets see that twinked out rogue try to go 1v4 in unrest griefing newbs for lulz when his gear is on the line. GMs could then focus on important things like making cool events occur on a regular basis, that draws in PVP and keeps the playbase interested in the server, which then brings even more players because word is getting around that this is fun.

I think only a fraction of potential PVP players are interested in 8 hour raids, if you make the low level PVP gameplay interesting, youll get a pop gain. EQ PvP is fun in itself, as long as Ro "This isnt CoD" Gean and Co dont get that and put all sorts of hindrances to PvPing, a new PVP server and this one will get nowhere. I played EQ for 2 years with only being faintly aware of the raid scene. I was 44 when i quit. When i got attacked somewhere, my group and I dropped what we were doing and started to PVP, sometimes for hours. Then more crews learned that Pvp was going on in an area and would join in. Because it was fun

But even for the pop for whom getting those end game gear pieces is important, when you add the risk of losing that gear, youd want to clear raid zones as fast as possible, so it would foster temporary alliances that were so hard to come by on red because of big egos not wanting to work together. Those who will be getting that end game gear will be the best ones at diplomacy and guild politics, adding yet another layer of gameplay on top of item loot economy.

I think a new server is probably a lost cause too, we had that one chance in november 2011 and the ball was dropped. But i dont know, with the surge of pop that DAOC origins is seeing, it could happen.

The more i think of it, the more i think its a great idea. Make an item loot server with this setup, launch it with Velious and watch most of Red99 jump off that failboat and let red die. Will have been a big beta to see what worked and what didnt work. You should do that server instead of a teams server, teams needs a high minimum of pop to be enjoyable and if theres more than the slightest imbalance in pop then players will reroll to the winning side like a self-perpetuating vortex or it will just die faster than red ever did.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

BUT there is one way item loot might work:

1) make every item soulbound but lootable -> disable bankslots except coins

3) make bags lootable too

4) make highend lore-items not destroyable

5) very short loot-timer (30secs)

You dont make sense. Youre saying that item loot is too griefy (I agree). I propose changes to make item loot less griefey and you suggest stuff like make bags lootable to make it even more griefey than vanilla item loot.

[mitic]

romantic ideas u have young tradesonredpadawan but unfortunately, It won't work out your way

[mitic]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You dont make sense. Youre saying that item loot is too griefy (I agree). I propose changes to make item loot less griefey and you suggest stuff like make bags lootable to make it even more griefey than vanilla item loot.

it gets griefey when u pk someone classic style, steal his stuff and bank/bag/destroy it after so he can't get it back after he kills you. that's why i made my custom proposals for item loot.

[Shaakglith12194]

Item loot is a bad idea. I played on RZ and enjoyed it A LOT, but there's something that RZ had that red99 will never have: a predominantly anti-pk population. The uber guilds were all anti-pk, examples being Ascending Dawn, Wudan, Magus Imperialis Magicus, and Destiny of Zek. Who did the PKs have? Flowers of Happiness, The Curse, Darkenbane (Darkenbane was uber very early on, but they had a revival during the anti-pk reign which was laughable). All the random pk guilds were total jokes that got absolutely stomped by the anti-pk guilds on a regular basis. Pvp still happened quite a lot, and I experienced it on a daily basis, but everyone wore no-drop unless they were raiding.

The grief will be just as bad and players will be driven away even faster than they were on red99. Players will form pvp groups and just go around killing constantly, especially once players start obtaining decent items. Why farm guk when you can just go there and kill the people who are doing it? The items are certainly an upgrade for them if they're grouping there, so why not take uber geared characters down there, kill a group, and loot their best items?

On red99, when it started and when I came back, almost every guild and every player was random pk. In fact, the only people who didn't try to kill me on sight was Holocaust. Never had a problem with them, but faydwer was like freaking compton. Spear of the Nation was the only anti-pk guild. Teams server may be different when/if it gets released. Red99 is a toxic cesspool of the worst Sullon Zek had to offer.