2v2 chipp and lite

[compulsion]

Originally Posted by iiNGloriouS [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

BC-WotLK was skill yknawatamsayin? Cata and MoP just want FotM

While I would generally defend the skill involved in WoW PvP, to say that tbc or lk were much different than either of the other 2 expansions is nostalgia blindness. tbc was rogues everywhere, unkillable SL/SL warlocks and "skillherald" warriors. lk was dk's 3 shotting everyone, then explosive shot did 70% of a health bar, then destro locks and ele shams with the 2 shot combos. Mixed in with all this you can add the prot warrior rework where, for a whole season, they dealt higher effective damage than arms, and all the players who made glad in double healer comps.

WoW having an active and competitive tournament scene lasted like 3 years and was probably powered more by the PvE side of the game than the PvP side. Prior to cata every class went for a certain target resil, and used raid gear for the rest. There was a certain mystique to being a top level player. After cata hit, everyone got the same gear, so the game devolved to pretty much comp vs comp. Don't forget that the MLG dropped WoW during LK(which was very near its peak popularity) because top level play was basically garbage, and it really isn't any different today than it was 3 or 5 years ago.

[iiNGloriouS]

Originally Posted by compulsion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While I would generally defend the skill involved in WoW PvP, to say that tbc or lk were much different than either of the other 2 expansions is nostalgia blindness. tbc was rogues everywhere, unkillable SL/SL warlocks and "skillherald" warriors. lk was dk's 3 shotting everyone, then explosive shot did 70% of a health bar, then destro locks and ele shams with the 2 shot combos. Mixed in with all this you can add the prot warrior rework where, for a whole season, they dealt higher effective damage than arms, and all the players who made glad in double healer comps.

WoW having an active and competitive tournament scene lasted like 3 years and was probably powered more by the PvE side of the game than the PvP side. Prior to cata every class went for a certain target resil, and used raid gear for the rest. There was a certain mystique to being a top level player. After cata hit, everyone got the same gear, so the game devolved to pretty much comp vs comp. Don't forget that the MLG dropped WoW during LK(which was very near its peak popularity) because top level play was basically garbage, and it really isn't any different today than it was 3 or 5 years ago.

When I read explosive shot, I stopped reading everything you said. Didn't see any survival hunters on top of the ladders or near it all of WoTLK just BM/MM... Interadasting.

[Loto]

Rogues were more of a problem in Vanilla WoW than TBC+, the lack of resilience was crucial for their monstrous dps against casters and other things that squished in the night.

"Scissors beats paper, but scissors also beats rock (warrior), until rock becomes level 60 and a WWE fighter (the Rock). Paper might be able to beat scissors, but scissors is invisible." - World of Roguecraft

I'm sure I butchered that quote, but the video is a fun comparison of old WoW pvp balance discrepancies between melee and casters. The warlock vs warlock battle is pretty legit.

[compulsion]

Originally Posted by iiNGloriouS [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When I read explosive shot, I stopped reading everything you said. Didn't see any survival hunters on top of the ladders or near it all of WoTLK just BM/MM... Interadasting.

All that shows is that you don't understand the mechanics of the game you played. The top comps always had a magic dispel, and explosive shot could could be cleansed and the hunter trained and wrecked. Beastcleave was the easiest and most consistent hunter option at high ratings for that entire expansion, while survival was another gatekeeper spec that kept teams without a magic dispel from any shot at decent ratings. And it still proves that, yes, the entire expansion was still just a handful of fot-season glad range comps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q5pb-fEQhs

^ There you go, PvP from your golden era.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uM-3hDfWkE

More skill? I know, not high rated but the gameplay is outstanding.

[pasi]

WotLK was all about unhealable damage. TBC was far better balanced in terms of survivability, healing, and damage output. Far from perfect, but it's the closest Blizzard had come. 5s being an actual bracket was evidence of this.

IIRC, Explosive shot/survival was much better in 2s in early WotLK. BM in 3s was superior due to the fact that the damage was coming from sources that were unable to be locked down. Whereas with survival, you could lock down the primary source of the damage (the hunter).

[iiNGloriouS]

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WotLK was all about unhealable damage. TBC was far better balanced in terms of survivability, healing, and damage output. Far from perfect, but it's the closest Blizzard had come. 5s being an actual bracket was evidence of this.

IIRC, Explosive shot/survival was much better in 2s in early WotLK. BM in 3s was superior due to the fact that the damage was coming from sources that were unable to be locked down. Whereas with survival, you could lock down the primary source of the damage (the hunter).

Maybe you should listen to Pasi compulsive, he knows what he is talking about. Survival was hardly used for that reason, what'd you play on BG1? lol

Btw nice link to an all boomkin 5v5, you fucking moron.

[compulsion]

Originally Posted by iiNGloriouS [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe you should listen to Pasi compulsive, he knows what he is talking about. Survival was hardly used for that reason, what'd you play on BG1? lol

Btw nice link to an all boomkin 5v5, you fucking moron.

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Explosive shot/survival was much better in 2s in early WotLK. BM in 3s was superior due to the fact that the damage was coming from sources that were unable to be locked down. Whereas with survival, you could lock down the primary source of the damage (the hunter).

is saying the exact same thing as

Originally Posted by compulsion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

explosive shot could could be cleansed and the hunter trained and wrecked. Beastcleave was the easiest and most consistent hunter option at high ratings for that entire expansion, while survival was another gatekeeper spec that kept teams without a magic dispel from any shot at decent ratings

but I don't bother dealing with 2s. Just because one spec is more reliable does not mean another is not a shining example of shitty game design/play, or that beastcleave is any better of an example for quality gameplay. I never said survival was the best spec, I cited it as an example of horrible gameplay, which Pasi confirms.

Speaking of 2s, the game had gotten so bad by LK that 2s were removed from ranking, and 5s were virtually unplayable.

Originally Posted by iiNGloriouS [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Btw nice link to an all boomkin 5v5, you fucking moron.

It is an amusing example how bad gameplay was in LK. It is a joke video, just like competitive PvP from that entire expansion was. Youtube world of instantcraft for more lols.

[iiNGloriouS]

Originally Posted by compulsion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

is saying the exact same thing as



but I don't bother dealing with 2s. Just because one spec is more reliable does not mean another is not a shining example of shitty game design/play, or that beastcleave is any better of an example for quality gameplay. I never said survival was the best spec, I cited it as an example of horrible gameplay, which Pasi confirms.

Speaking of 2s, the game had gotten so bad by LK that 2s were removed from ranking, and 5s were virtually unplayable.



It is an amusing example how bad gameplay was in LK. It is a joke video, just like competitive PvP from that entire expansion was. Youtube world of instantcraft for more lols.

You realize 5 moonkin was an arena team since the beginning right? It has done the same shit since arena was created. Don't act like it cropped up in the WotLK all of the sudden.

More importantly, you didn't say anything close to what Pasi did. Survival was never used in 3s, maybe sub 1750? But not like anything at that rating mattered.

You also talked about Cata earlier making everyone on the same gear level etc, I guess you like having free gear handed to you rather than working for it. Typical WoW player I guess. Gotta have that gear handed to ya.

You want to know the real reason 2s was removed from the rankings? Because it was nothing but Disc Rogue or Mage Rogue for the top 200+ teams on the ladder. It was imbalanced because not many other 2s comps worked. There were some but these were the most brain dead versions. Not because of the "imbalance of WotLK".

[compulsion]

Originally Posted by iiNGloriouS [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You realize 5 moonkin was an arena team since the beginning right? It has done the same shit since arena was created. Don't act like it cropped up in the WotLK all of the sudden.

More importantly, you didn't say anything close to what Pasi did. Survival was never used in 3s, maybe sub 1750? But not like anything at that rating mattered.

You also talked about Cata earlier making everyone on the same gear level etc, I guess you like having free gear handed to you rather than working for it. Typical WoW player I guess. Gotta have that gear handed to ya.

You want to know the real reason 2s was removed from the rankings? Because it was nothing but Disc Rogue or Mage Rogue for the top 200+ teams on the ladder. It was imbalanced because not many other 2s comps worked. There were some but these were the most brain dead versions. Not because of the "imbalance of WotLK".

1. That vid was after 3.3.3 which buffed starfall damage through the roof and was left in game til Cata release. So yes, it did in fact "crop up in WotLK all of the sudden".

2. When I call survival a "gatekeeper" spec, 1700ish is exactly what I mean. It was an example of shitty game play. The same shitty game play that keeps only a small handful of viable comps at the top of the ladders every season. The fact that another spec may be even shittier(pop BW and score a kill through healing) only serves to strengthen my original point, that the entire system was laughable.

3. I do prefer being able to play without spending hundreds or more hours mindlessly sidestepping glowing puddles to get PvE gear. I have no interest in turning myself into Tune in order to feel like I won a video game. Cata may have been the worst expansion ever, but at least it marked the last time I ever set foot in a raid instance.

4. So, in TBC you could get glad in 2s. And then in WotLK season 5 and 6. Then, months of time and 2 patches into WotLK, starting with season 7, glad was no longer attainable in 2s. So really, it was actually "because of the imbalance of WotLK" that 2s was stripped of all its meaning. Mid way through LK Blizz realizes that the game is actually so limited and so bad PvP wise, that they act to remove achievements from a whole bracket.

"it was nothing but Disc Rogue or Mage Rogue for the top 200+ teams on the ladder"

^ That is exactly what FOT* means. Having 5 viable 3s comps as opposed to 2 viable 2s comps doesn't mean the game is good.

On a sidenote, since you could get glad in 2s s5 and s6, and since survival hunters(and DKs) could 2 shot you in that bracket, you actually could play at "ratings that matter" and get titles on 2 button FOTM specs [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] WotLK = good times + good gameplay yessir

[Colgate]

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